Is Mutual Respect Possible?

by Sociologist 48 Replies latest jw friends

  • joannadandy
    objective comments about the Watchtower organization are hard to come by. Most active JW's are loathe to admit to any defects in the organization; most of you who commented are unwilling to recognize anything positive about it. Both sides are hopelessly biased. It is not just the JW organization that doesn't like too many questions being asked; quite a few ex-witnesses apparently feel the same way, judging by some of the replies. It is a mentality that strikes out and attacks those who even hint at disagreeing, calling them insincere, ignorant or evil.

    Sociologist-thank you for your insightful comments. These were long standing feelings have always felt about this board and certain posters. But not all are fanatical. Tho I found some peoples replies to your honest and insightful questions a little sad because they seemed to play right into the fanaticsm you had pointed out.

    Coming from supposedly liberated minds I find that strange and can only hope that this message board is not representative of the majority of ex-witnesses, who hopefully resist wallowing in self-pity and complaining about how badly they've been treated and get on with their lives.

    I too have also felt this way. For some they do rejoice, and for others they seem to rejoice in a way that shows itself in hate and hurt feelings. In fact some of my posts and replies to people have been those same words "Get on with it" and it was never recieved with much warm feelings, but rather quick and spiteful attacks. What I have come to learn from that is all people deal with their emotions in different ways. Some will get over it, others never will.

    I for one do feel moderate. There are awful people all over the world with dirty little goals. Some of them are witnesses, some of them are not, and some of them are ex-witnesses. I have always made it my aim in life to not make blanket generalizations. Fairmindedness and open to possibilites is often difficult. Especially having been subjected to the control of the WTS. I do understand while people feel the way they do, but some of the attacks, conspiracy theories, and overly sensitive posts here do make me scratch my head, and say to myself "well that's where the witnesses get the idea that Apostates are whack jobs"

    I wish you all the luck with your questions, and don't be surprised if you get lots of hatemail. I hope I am mistaken. But I enjoyed your post regardless of if you posted here before, under a different name, how old you are, or what your status is with the organization. I hope you continue to post as well...

  • hillary_step
    Tho I found some peoples replies to your honest and insightful questions a little sad because they seemed to play right into the fanaticsm you had pointed out.

    I am replying to this comment as I have made my suspicions known in this thread that I believe that 'Sociologist' is not quite what he appears to be, and feel in the circumstances rather than appear to be toying with peoples emotions he might let us know why he is so concerned about JW / XJW relationships. Motivation for threads is important to me as I have spent valuable time conversing in these types of thread with posters who turn out to have multiple personalities and are lying about who they are and what they want. Sociologist has been given opportunity to prove whether he is posting with deliberate deceit in mind and has not taken the time to address the issue, rather surprising for someone attempting to convince an audience he is performing a sociological field study.

    We all know the technique that 'Socilogist' is using, we all did it at some stage, "Good, morning my friend and I are doing a voluntary communal work".lol His appraoch understandably sounds alarm bells with some of us.

    Most who have read my posts on this Board are aware that I am very much a proponent of the middle road and would vigorously defend the fact that most JW's that I have met over three decades within the WTS are decent, honest and kind people, caught in a system beyond their control. Not everything about the JW's is bad, the trouble is that what is bad is dangerous. Once those issues have been attended to within its hierarchy, it will be just another benign religion and this Board can close down and Simon can get some rest and

    Best regards - HS

    Edited by - hillary_step on 7 August 2002 18:44:24

  • ballistic

    hilary, I agree with your concerns and as I stated in my post, I believe Soc could possibly be a JW or a JW sympathiser. However I still found the questions raised interesting and warrant further discussion in their own right, and that doing so would not constitute a waste of time on the part of anybody.

  • hillary_step

    Yes Ballistic

    I guess we all have different ways of viewing this. Mine on this thread revolves around honesty, trolls and potential 'flame wars'.

    Best - HS

  • larc


    If you read my first post to Sociologist, you know that I was very bothered my his approach. It just didn't smell right to me. You probably have noticed that he is not posting to either explain himself or elaborate on his intensions. Hillary, I always enjoy your thoughts, and I really hope that we can have at least one evening of conversation in person.

  • joannadandy

    Hillary I do know you to be a middle of the road person, and I have always valued your posts as well. I respect and admire everything you have ever written.


    rather surprising for someone attempting to convince an audience he is performing a sociological field study.

    I don't recall soci asking to do a study. Just that he/she had been looking into it, and with such a background some questions came to mind. Seems innocent enough to me. Perhaps I am strike that I know I am. I like to believe people are on the up and up, and I see nothing particularly stirring any of those posts that would cause me to believe this person is a troll, as for he/she not responding--perhaps he/she has a but I always find if funny when some doesn't reply right away that it must mean they are just making trouble)

    Oh well, just me rambling again...

  • outoftheorg

    Hello "sociologist"

    Your initial post was interesting but questionable in its structure. This roused legitimate questions about your sincerity.

    Your reply to the responses you recieved. Such as "wallow in self pity" "get on with your life. Reveal that you are not a Sociologist in any legitimate sense.

    You have an agenda and it is obvious. You are dishonest and deceitful.

  • Pathofthorns

    An old Watchtower tactic used to avoid discussing uncomfortable facts was to question the "sincerity" and "motive" of those raising certain topics or asking certain questions. Try asking an elder about "1975" and instead of an answer you will get "why?" and "what is your reason for asking that?"

    I doubt few of us can say we haven't used a certain amount of cunning in our discussions with JW's to help them think a bit outside the box and the motives we pretended to have were just clever disguises used to advance our agendas.

    It is facinating that some can't see the ironies between our own behavior and that of JW's. The more the dialogue on this thread plays out, the more accurate this person's assessment of this board seems.

    Whatever motive this individual had in posting what he did, it is the truth in what he wrote that is raising the suspicions of some. But why can't his questions or observations or whatever they were stand on their own merit?

    I dislike being played by trolls myself, but if a troll raises valid points, they are still valid points. I think the topic can stand on its own without debating the motives or the individual that raised them. If this person is indeed a troll, would that make his observations any less valid?


  • Dia

    Ahhh...finally. I've figured out the assumption you're making that is so far off the mark, we can hardly respond.

    The assumption you're making is that we (jws and exjws) are just 'two sides to the same coin'.

    If this is what you're just don't have a clue, yet.

    You're no longer posting. But maybe you're still reading.

    Don't just drop it and give up. It's bigger than that.

    C'mon. You can do it.

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