Theocratic War Strategy at my house

by freeman 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • Incense_and_Peppermints
    Incense_and_Peppermints

    maybe you guys think it's ok to have your children gone for 8 years out of your life, or to abandon your child to a corrupt organization like that... or to have someone tell them you are evil and controlled by satan. as a mother, i would fight tooth and nail against them.

    just who the F are they anyway? nothing is impossible, even getting his son out of ther clutches... legally. why wouldn't he get custody? it seems to me the courts would see HER as a nutcase, and award custody to the father.besides, with all the negative publicity against them now as the %$##@#@ pedophiles they are, it's the best time to fight back.kids don't automatically go to women these days. especially women as deceitful and deluded and brainwashed as she is.

    saying there's nothing anyone can do and to not fight back is just WRONG. he has options. nothing is impossible, especially where our children are concerned. suppose his son never has an epiphany, what then?

    freeman said: I today found out that someone, one of "the friends" has secretly been taking him to some of the meetings behind my back. However, I am unable to find out whom.

    isn't that enough of a reason to fight?!

    Edited by - Incense_and_Peppermints on 1 August 2002 0:59:35

  • RandomTask
    RandomTask

    Well its just been my experience and the other experiences tat I have read back me up, that when people attempt to fight the dubs head on then they lose ALL contact with their loved ones. Fighting against the borg is like fighting against God to them and then being loyal dubs they will then TOTALLY cut you off.

    SO my advice is if you want to keep in contact with your family and perhaps save them from the mind control cult then you should keep a low profile and try to instill those doubts from within. Ultimately its their choice, but try to encourage open mindedness and freedom of expression, its a stark contrast to the Kingdom Hall.

  • Incense_and_Peppermints
    Incense_and_Peppermints

    http://www.freeminds.org/family/family.htm

    family.jpg (21055 bytes) Click here for
    Ken Watters'
    story of his
    family background

    (revised 5/25/01, their 57th anniversary!)

    from top left, clockwise: Randy, Sue, Joy and Ken Watters

    Recovering Your Family after leaving the Watchtower

    see also How I Helped My Family Leave Jehovah's Witnesses by a former elder

    When dealing with authoritarian religions, the words "cult" and mind-control" sometimes conjure up images of brainwashing techniques of the sixties as used on American POWs by the Communist Chinese. Yet religions are basically an extension of the family model, with a new set of authority figures as well as "brothers" and "sisters." A destructive cult, therefore, is a "family gone bad." If one has seen an over-restrictive, abusive father or a domineering, oppressive mother try to discipline their children into obedience and unquestioning loyalty by force instead of by love and trust, you are capable of understanding almost all the dynamics of destructive cults. In a word, they are "bad parents." Their methods of control betray their excessive egotism, their grandiose yet over-simplified solutions to man's problems, and their lack of trust of almost everyone not entirely loyal to them personally. Jim Jones provided the classic model of cult mind control with the mass suicide-slaughter of over 900 members of his "Family" in Guyana in 1978.

    One can spend weeks and years studying the many doctrines and rituals of cultic organizations. Yet the real problems are almost always family related. There is no shortage of information out there regarding most cults: their teachings, history and practices. Attempt to show some of this documentation to the cult member, and you will be met with non-interest, horror and possibly violence in rare cases. Why? Did the group really "brainwash" them, cutting short their ability to think for themselves or perform simple exercises in logic?

    Modern professionals in the field of cult research such as Margaret Singer and Steven Hassan have provided us with models of understanding cult mind control. The programming technique used by most modern cults is more subtle and refined, and is often more aptly called "coercive persuasion." Kind of like slick advertising with a sharp, barbed hook on the end. Times may have changed and cult members don't dress funny or act out-of-place in society in most cases, but they still want your time, your money, and most importantly, your exclusive devotion. Furthermore, they do not trust you until they have stripped away your natural personality with its cyniscism, caution and primal awareness and replaced it with a clone of the leader(s). Exactly what a very controlling parent wants.

    Traits of Bad ParentsTraits of Good Parents
    little or no communicationtalking and sharing generally pleasant, mixed with humor; times of displeasure not weighted with silence.
    no respect for the childrenchildren are taught to be responsible with kind, patient lessons, so as to eliminate the need for supervision in most cases. They often act out how they are treated (If you are treated like dirt you will think of yourself as dirt.)
    unyielding expectationsparents willing to listen to complaints or suggestions, not assuming the child's heart is bad. Willing to yield so as to highlight the beauty of the child's character.
    unable to enter a child's worldparents not so busy or inflexible that they can't become a child again, and step out of the parenting role for a few minutes.
    touch and eye contact not pleasant to the childa kind touch and pleasant words are the rewards for the good child, a very-desired thing for kids who have cultivated a liking for such intimacy.
    no support for the child's goals and dreamsparents don't lay out their child's career without their full assent in later years when they are responsible enough to make such decisions. Children are not "kept" so that the parents can live out their aspirations through them.
    negative outlook on life, fatalistic, complaininglife is what you make it, and good parents know the value of fun, joy and hard work. We are living in better times than man ever has!
    no trust in the better self of the child, too much focus on the "sin nature."a good parent recognizes that most children really want to do good. Helping them through their problems with love and understanding, and seeing the positive outcome of a responsible, mature son or daughter convinces the good parent that we can really be good persons if we put a little work into each other. Good parents are proud of their children.
    incapable of a horizontal (peer-type) relationship for special timeschildren need to play children games, sometimes even with their parents. Will mom or dad play hide and seek? Will they cry along with you when you suffer a setback? These are examples of occasionally excercising a horizontal relationship, instead of always being "head of" or the "authority" in charge (vertical relationship).
    no toleration for other ideologies or outsidersparents recognize the best protection is often a richer understanding of life and basic human behavior. People are not constantly judge due to parent's insecurities or fears, the world is in color rather than black-and-white.
    view of God is harshpeople tend to be more critical of the motives of others when their own motives are suspect. One would reasonably expect that God would be kinder and more loving than the best of parents, and good parents have faith in the love, justice and mercy that would be expected of a Supreme Being and his creation.

    I was very fortunate to be raised in a family that did not practice manipulation, supported the goals and dreams of the kids, and was always punctuated by light-hearted humor. People who don't take themselves too seriously enjoy a much higher quality of life. My parents, Ken and Joy Watters, have been married for over 53 years. My sister and brother-in-law have been married for over 30 years. Last Thanksgiving I was asked to say something at the table, prayer or otherwise. I took the opportunity to say that we have such a great thing, in that we can get together year after year and have a good time, without fights or bad feelings, and always plenty of love and good food. THAT is something to be thankful for.

    One Criteria Sufficient

    If one reason alone should be chosen for deciding a group or organization is not from God, it should be the love among themselves. Not the phony cookie-cutter love in cults (that only loves you if you have given up your natural self to be what they want you to be), but the decision to love others in spite of your differences, and to be able to trust such a person to do good. Whether one be a Christian, Buddhist or atheist, the story of the love of Christ reveals a greater love that can change our lives.

    Randy Watters

    Similar articles:

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    A Mother's Disassociation Letter after 40 Years in the Watchtower
    Children: The Introduction Of Phobias (Deep Rooted Fears) And Other Development Traits In The Jehovah Witness Child
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  • Bang
    Bang

    It seems that you are the one who needs to use the strategies.

    Be very accomodating of your childs behaviours, likes, dislikes, ideas of fun, and don't be yelling at them (and certainly not at first contact times).

    First contact times make an impact - e.g. get home from work and go off about untidiness or something - no way. Children enjoy nicety, and being taken care of. If parent A yells at initial contact times, even at parent B - child wishes to avoid parent A.

    Be nice, but use that war strategy - during a nice happy time after prolonged contact, slyly let the child know that the wtbts are absolute nutjobs and have been known to lie and be nasty, but you let 'mom' go along with it because she'll get over it one day, and not be so scared of God, like you and your son.

    As for someone sneaking your child away without your approval - briefly, calmly, subtly and slyly mention that you heard of some people involving police, kidnapping charges and adverse publicity.

    Under no circumstances make a threat - either do something or not.

    bang

    Edited by - Bang on 1 August 2002 3:24:57

  • avengers
    avengers

    Thank you very much for ruining so many lives Watchtower Leaders. Thank You.

    I promise you I will fight you till the end. I will win!!

  • Larry
    Larry

    I feel your pain my brother really I do.

    Remembeer childen are smarter than we think.

    Peace - LL.

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    Free: I have three kids, ages 13, 11 and 7, and a husband who is still a JW. I was in for 13 years and DAd myself in Jan 1997. The kids never wanted to go to those meetings. And when I first left, I allowed my husband to take the kids. He used them mostly as pawns, to gain sympathy....Oh POOR Brother LovesDubs with the apostate wife! The kids saw me however as betraying THEM by allowing Dad to drag them to meetings in monkey suits and allow him to make them answer inane questions that they had no appreciable understanding of anyway. It was a very touchy situation. I want my marriage to stay together (and we are still together after 5 years of this battle) but I also needed my kids to know why there needed to be a balance. So..over the years I have brought my "normalcy" into their lives with holidays, family gatherings, birthdays, sports, school activities...so that they can see how life is supposed to be LIVED and enjoyed. I and YOU...know more about this Cult than its members, our spouses do...and they wont see the bad things. They REFUSE to see the bad things. But the kids are still willing to look. And little sponges that they are, they will be looking at YOUR behavior in all this. And whether or not you are the crazy beast that the WTS describes you to be.

    The trick is not to become that nutcase even in the desperation to "save" your kids. The kids will decide for themselves in due time. As long as you give them a steady stream CALMLY of what YOU believe and what YOU have found about Mommy's religion. My kids have seen in the last 5 years, their own grandmother and their aunt and uncle and all the people we loved, shun mommy...they see how I am not welcome any more even to the homes of the people I named them after. And now...my mother in law has left the Borg after 23 years and now Grandma is shunned by her own children and the JW grandchildren. They are appalled and horrified by this. And...the result is they are moving away from the JWs. But they are doing it in such a manner that they dont want to hurt Daddys feelings either. The kids should not be made to CHOOSE a parent.

    Free...Im not in another religion now, wont ever be either, but if you believe in God...believe He will help you in this. Swallow that urge to strangle them all, and make yourself the calming element in the childrens lives. The result will be that Mommy and her co-conspirators will look like the maniacs.

    Ive been to court cases specifically dealing with this situation JWs against EXJWs for custody over a child and the court REFUSED to make custodial decisions based on the degree of spirituality one parent had or didnt have over the other. The court decided based on the needs of the child and said that EACH parent had the right to teach the child their religion. He awarded JOINT custody and told the shunned parent to "get over it" and find new friends. The Watchtower society was there with their minions behind the JW parent loading the judge with lie after lie after boldfaced lie too. IT was disgusting to watch. Just know they are TOTALLY capable of lying in court so dont even try to go there. All you have to do is read the "What to do In Child Custody Cases" brochure they put out about how to act and what to SAY in court to know thats true.

    The harder you push, indeed, the more entrenched they will become, circling the wagons against you. And KNOW THIS..they are not BEYOND KIDNAPPING YOUR CHILDREN AND DISAPPEARING INTO AN UNDERGROUND OF JWS. Its happened several times.

    Tread lightly. Keep your wits about you.

  • Francois
    Francois

    "...doesnt matter what I said, this is what she is telling everyone." In other words, a bald-faced lie. And she even denies it's a bald-faced lie.

    Why don't you write a short note explaining yourself and what you really mean. Multiply plenty of copies of it, and while the meeting is going on next Sunday, put a copy under every windshield wiper of every car in the parking lot of the KH? And if that doesn't work, mail it to every JW at the hall. They WOULD respect my wishes with my son, or they'd be in dEEp do-do.

    And if you relent and let him go, you'd have to spend at least as much time with him UN-brainwashing him, as he spends in the meetings getting brainwashed. I'd be tempted to take my children and disappear.

    francois

  • CoonDawg
    CoonDawg

    Trust me, I know your situation. Mine is similar, only my child lives a long ways away from me. I make sure that on Sundays, we do fun stuff. She never even pretends to miss the meetings when she's here. I also make it a point to tell her of how just because bro. SoandSo says something from the platform does not make it true. Noone is always right. These are the things I try to make sure that she gets. I also make it clear that I will love her NO MATTER WHAT she chooses to do. Even if she decided to be in the Borg and wanted to pioneer when she got older...I'd support her in her decision. Oh, sure...i'd make sure to play devil's advocate...but the support would be there.

    Just some thought...

    Ern

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    This is one are where I have absolutely NO tolerance at all. Even though I have never objected to anyone taking my kids to meetings, (its always been their grandmother) If I did object for what ever reason I would expect my wishes to be respected no exceptions.

    Sneaking behind your back like that is inexcusable.

    I had a friend who is a dub and her husband forbid her to take their son to the meetings and even forbid her to read any of the literature to him.

    She told him that she wouldnt but continue to sneak behind his back anyway.
    This was when I was still fairly active. I told her what I thought about it,
    that she was wrong.
    She should respect his wishes and by going behind his back not only is she setting a bad example for her son but also she is teaching him to be deceitful and lie to his dad.

    AND did she really expect him to not remember these things when he is grown?
    It was like talking to a shoe.

    I am probably more of a hot wire then most when it comes to my kids but if I were you (Im not suggesting anything) I would go to the KH during the service meeting and politely when the meeting is about to end go up on stage and say

    <i>excuse me I something very important I need to say.</i>

    And I would say it like it is. Not angry but very calm and respectable.
    Be the perfect gentlemen.

    ((I have no problems with anyone coming to my home and visiting my wife.
    They have always been welcome and will continue to be welcome however I want to make it very clear that I do not want
    Whom ever it is to continue to bring my son to the meetings secretly against my wishes

    This is a great disrespect to me. Thank you for your cooperation.))

    No one from that point on would be able to walk into a KH in that area again without being instantly marked. And I would expect they would be called into a JC meeting if they did because they would be bringing reproach on the AND they would also know not to listen to your wife. She may be playing you AND her friends

    I BET YOU It WOULD WORK

    plum

    .
    oops howd that happen
    .

    Edited by - plmkrzy on 1 August 2002 11:53:19

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