by Ice Blue 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
WHAT?
No poone-tang?
Nuts to this, I quit...
No I think a real JW response would be something more like: God will tell us how it is when the time is right, it is not up to us to speculate on his purpose (meanwhile they do it all day long).
Yeah I never gave this one much thought ever...but to be of the nookieless class would suck the great pomegrante of doom.
Blue Ice,
The bible says "Death ends marriage" It's over at that point. You would have to find a new person to marry if your marriage partner got remarried to another after you died. It is over when one dies.
Another movie reference here, kind of like "castaway" his wife thought he was dead and moved on with her life. When he came back, it was over even though he still loved her and she loved him. New live begins, you will find someone new to love.
Of course all of this is based on the premise of WT theology of an earthly paradise and resurection after armegedon that I personally don't subscribe to any longer.
I must go for now..... cheers. -Stealth of the "YES nookie class"
Edited by - stealth on 30 July 2002 18:3:40
No I think a real JW response would be something more like: God will tell us how it is when the time is right, it is not up to us to speculate on his purpose (meanwhile they do it all day long).
DoubleDittos
BlueIce: I understand the point you made about changes emotionally, but I don't think that that changes who we are essentially. For instance, the relative I mentioned earlier is essentially the same person she was before she was widowed, but with a new experience of living without her husband. Her widowhood has not made her someone else. Her essential self has unravelled and manifested itself according to her genes and her environment as she grew up, but had her life taken a different turn from babyhood upwards, she would still be essentially the same person. It is the essence of the person that I'm talking about, "the spirit that goes back to" God (under his care, in other words). It is that part of the whole that differentiates us from the next person. Unfortunately we could go on and on in the vein of Greek philosophers arguing what constitutes us, the world around us, is life an illusion, etc, etc, but that would be profitless. Suffice to say that if we believe in the resurrection of the dead, then we must accept that God has some means of identifying 'us'.
(Edited to change 'molded' to 'manifested', which better conveys my point)
Edited by - NewWay on 30 July 2002 18:16:22
NO I think a real JW response would be something more like: God will tell us how it is when the time is right, it is not up to us to speculate on his purpose (meanwhile they do it all day long).[/B]
Tripple ditto!
But you see, THEY have the "Holy Spirit" tm (Dr Evil raises hands and moves fingers up and down) that allows them to speculate on the deeper things that us little earth dwellers can't understand and must wait on Jah to explain it to our little pea brains since we got no holy spirit.
Yeah Righhhhhhht!
It's easier to explain than that:
When you die you go to heaven or hell, depending on whether or not you took advantage of having a relationship with Christ (John 6:40). Hence getting to be firsthand buddies with either a rich dude, or Lazarus and Abraham (Luke 16:22, 23).
Then the whole world is destroyed by fire (2 Pet.3:7).
Then there is a recreation of the heavens and the earth (2 Pet.3:13).
Then there is a bodily resurrection (John 11:25, 26), which isn't so good for those in hell because things hot up (Rev.20:14, 15).
Using the word "then", as translated from the greek word "tote", we can surely see, brothers, that this new light means that the meek will find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace (Ps.37:11).
Facial Hair poll: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33229&site=3
Cocoon was a good analogy.
"Better than sex" and "a foretaste of heaven", is how most describe religious experiences.
"Oh, Heaven...."
Facial Hair poll: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33229&site=3
This one topic that alway trobled me. And this one thing that the presidents and then the Governing Body should have take a passed on. But they rarely pass on anything. And it is catching up with them. Once again they put their noses in where angels fear to tread. We the living have no concept of what the new world will be like, and if we were told we probly wouldn'y like it. So that is why we are not informed. We have enough to deal with here and now.
God is just and it seems that there would not be any class distintions. But, who am I.
Agape
Joe
I was wondering if you have noticed that at Luke 20:36 it is written "In fact, neither can they die anymore."
Who is it that can't die anymore but those who are going to heaven to rule with Jesus Christ? The ones who live on the earth in the new system still have to go through when satan is released from the abyss to mislead mankind again. We haven't gone through the test before the second death, which is eternal death. The WTS is wrong when they say that the people who die at Armageddon will die their eternal death. As Romans 6:7 says "For he who has died has been acquitted from sin."
1 Corinthians 15:22 "For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive." Also, 1 John 2:1,2 1."My little children, I am writing you these things that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. 2. And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world's."
Also, Romans 14:7-9: 7. "None of us, if fact , lives with regard to himself only, and no one dies with regard to himself only; 8. for both if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. Therefore both if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. Therefore both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah. 9. For to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living."
John 5:28,29: 28." Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29. and come out, those who did good things to a resurrrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment." The resurrection of judgment is what I wonder about. And, of course, the vile things would be what Jehovah would consider vile not a human judge.
Acts 24:15: "and I have hope toward God, which hope these themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."
The Bible shows at Revelation 19:19-21 that the first into the second death is the wild beast, or man's political kingdoms or governments, and the false prophet, that being false religion. Revelation 20:10-15 shows that that is when a person is put into second death or eternal death after the thousand year reign of Christ and not before.
It would seem that the Bible would have no purpose or meaning if we didn't have marriage in the new system. I mean why have we had to go through this learning process of Jehovah's standards if we couldn't use them later. I mean God created woman for man and sex is to show complete love and devotion to the person that we want to be with. It just wouldn't make sense if the ones resurrected would be eunuchs.
SC
That is why it could be said that the first person (willingly of course) that a person has intercourse with constitutes their marriage mate, because they have 'joined together.'
NewWay
going back to an earlier post of yours - as quoted above. Are you saying then that Joseph was not married to Mary? Matthew 1:24? It was taking her home that constituted being married. I think you had better re read your Insight book, under Marriage<Ceremony.
As for
but I don't think that that changes who we are essentially
I think you are wrong. With each new experience we change and we grow, sometimes to a better person, sometimes to a bitter person. I am essentially at this very moment in time (fundamentally, at my most basic self) the fullness of the person I have become, with all my experiences, all my hopes, my fears, my dreams, my passions, my joys - that is who I am, now, in this second, before I experience another moment. So if I were to die in this second and at resurrection just one emotion were taken away from me I would no longer be that person who had so gradually evolved, buffeted by life - I would be someone new. Oh - I may have become that person in time, I grant you - but that was not the point.
Stealth
The bible says "Death ends marriage"
Yeh I know - but I sure as hell don't think I like it. It doesn't seem fair to me, but who am I ????????? Especially when you consider I am about to get a divorce - seems kind of academic, don't you think? (Probably blasted all my chances now)
SC
Seems like you've opened up a whole new subject. How many deaths are there? Any takers for a new string?
Thank you to everyone for your thoughts
Ice
