Need Help with a Scripture...

by mikepence 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  abbagail

  I can't believe they still HAVE DC's in outside arenas! at least not in the good ol' USA! With the Florida humidity and heat, I would never be able to cope with outside conventions, much less your elderly grandmother, or father (sorry to hear about his tumor, DJ).

  Would you happen to have that WT quote handy, which issue specifically, re: Jesus as mediator for the 144,000 only? I do remember hearing that, but I'd like to save it in email form for future reference.

  And maybe next time your Mom is open to a chat, if she would just read the scripture with you and think for a few minutes about it... I believe the scripture says there is One God and One Mediator between God and Men, Jesus Christ, PERIOD, Over and OUT!

  It does NOT say: One God and One Mediator between God and the Little Flock-FDS- Anointed- 144,000-GB only.

  Mediate/Mediator - Definition:
  2. To settle or reconcile differences, or the One who Does Such, as in Jesus.
  3. To have a relation to two differing persons or things, or the One Who Does Such, i.e., Jesus, between MEN and God, period!!

  The way they have interpreted the scripture they are assigning TWO MEDIATORS between God and Men, i.e., Jesus as Mediator Numero Uno between Themselves and God; and then Themselves as Mediator Number Two between the "other sheep" and Jesus. (Talk about "going beyond the things that are written"!!!)

  The Catholics practically do the same thing by sticking "Mary" in between Men and Jesus. I believe the word is Mediatrix? ;) (A shortened Female form of 'Mediator-Tricks,' which is the "Mary belief" perpetrated by false religionists).

  Someone else asked how does the society interpret the original scripture of this post, Matthew 25:40, etc., re: giving these "least ones of my brethren" something to drink, eat, welcome them, tend to them while sick, in prison, etc. That scripture was ALWAYS explained to us as meaning that if we did the PREACHING WORK we were in a sense helping the Anointed Class by "feeding them, tending to them, etc."

  Now with blinders 99% off, it's plain as day the scripture means JUST WHAT IS SAYS and nothing MORE, i.e., we should take care of each other, strangers too, if we see someone in NEED we are to HELP THEM. How much more obvious and simple of a request from Jesus can you get? Yet it did not even ring a bell until about a week ago Sunday, flipping the religious channels, and one TV preacher was reading that very scripture, and in a warm, loving, fatherly voice he was reading it, and very slowly he was reading it, word for word. And I literally started to cry :-(..... because it was as if I was hearing that scripture FOR THE FIRST TIME, and it was so clear, and so beautiful; yet simultaneously a stab of pain in my heart... A Beautiful & Bittersweet Revelation.

  What can I say? I'm a slow learner... Even if there really IS a group/144,000 or whatever, how do they figure they can "steal" all of these scriptures to THEMSELVES ONLY? That leaves 99% of the world of mankind out of the picture altogether. Jesus must be shaking his head in disbelief...

  Thanks for letting me express mawwwwself.
  Gritts
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  dungbeetle

  Thanks to Freefallin:

  *** Watchtower 1991 February 15 pp.15-20 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***

  8 Hence, the ransom sacrifice is fundamental to the new covenant, of which Jesus is the Mediator. Paul wrote: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all-this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times." (1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Those words especially apply to the 144,000, with whom the new covenant is made.

  [...]

  11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God's friends. (Compare James 2:23.) During the Millennium, they will gradually "be set free from enslavement to corruption [until finally they] have the glorious freedom of the children of God."-Romans 8:21.

  Go to quotes at the bottom of this page and check out Mediator, there's lots more stuff on it.

  And from me, Dungbeetle:

  Watchtower 4/1/87

  As the Mediator between Jehovah God and those who have been taken into the new covenant, he has been serving indeed as a wonderful counselor for these past 19 centuries. Now, since 1935, "a great crowd" of his "other sheep" has been taking in his wonderful counsel and is getting the finest instruction and guidance

  WT 4/1/81

  Why is that true? It is because the Founder of the celebration set it up for observance by those with whom he made a covenant for the heavenly kingdom. Although dedicated and baptized, those of the "great crowd" recognize that they have not been taken into that covenant for the Kingdom. They are not spiritual Israelites, forasmuch as they have not been taken into the "new covenant," which is made with spiritual Israelites through the Mediator Jesus Christ

  WT 4/1/79

  The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant

  WT 4/1/73

  As Mediator, Christ also helps those in the new covenant to fulfill its terms and to qualify to be kings and priests with him. However, not all attending this memorial observance are partakers of the emblems served. However.Jesus said: "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold [of the "little flock"]; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." (John 10:16) They would support the stand the anointed ones have taken and would cooperate in preaching the good news to others. But God has not held out the heavenly invitation to them,

  The Watchtowers of 2/15/66 and 11/15/72 give the direct impression that Jesus is mediator for all.

  So, it appears from the pages of the Watchtower the change took place ON paper in 1972/1973.

  This is what it says in Crises of Conscience (1999 edition, pages 270-271)

  <(November 16, 1979), the Societys president, Fred Franz, was presiding at the morning Bible text discussionhe stated that some were questioning the Societys position (set forth in a recent Watchtower) that Jesus Christ is the mediator only for the "anointed" ones and not for the other millions of Jehovahs Witnesses. He said of such ones: "They would merge everyone together and make Jesus Christ the mediator for every Tom, Dick, and Harry."

  for me it was evident from Scripture that Jesus Christ did ofer his mediation to bring about reconciliation with God for every Tom, Dick, and Harry >

  Thanks Ray Franz!!!!!!!

  And one final thought thanks to Cassilines:

  The Aid book definitely stated that Jesus is mediator for all. Aside from the fact that a major contributor to the Aid book was Ray Franz (an 'apostate' <gag> <choke>) the other reason for getting rid of that book and replacing it with the 'Insight on the Scriptures' was that the 'Insight' book now has the teaching of Jesus is mediator only for the 144,000.

  I don't have an Aid book in the house; maybe someone can put up the page numbers for us.

  Edited by - dungbeetle on 30 July 2002 5:33:39
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  Bang

  I'm very happy for you grits.

  Now you'll see harvest angels everywhere - the poor and needy - sorting out the sheep from the goats - blessed, broken and handed out for your sake.

  Those angels that Lot took care of, do the dubs think they were 'fine' sorts? - or the type of people who truly say, "no, we'll sleep in the street". "only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof" - i.e. so they may be looked after.

  Interesting term that "look after" one - so I may fix things behind them? So I may see them again? Must look into it.

  bang
• 

  Bang

  Oh, and on that mediator talk, what about "he breathed on them saying whoever you forgive they are forgiven".

  He is present in people, with people, and we know His mother is with Him. "when they had come into the house, they saw Jesus with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him"

  bang
• 

  DJ

  Re: Need Help with a Scripture

  Thankyou, Dungbeetle for the mediator stuff! You saved me a lot of time.....I'm going to print it out this time and HOLD ONTO it!

  Grits, Wow. I totally relate to you! It's like reading the scriptures for the first time when I read what it really says now! Free from the WT's false teachings. Thinking back, it's actually scary that we were that blind! They have a way of making mountains out of molehills and visa versa. Some things in the bible are simply just what they say!!!!!!!!! It's reaaly a transition that only the Good Shepherd can reveal to us. So cool, huh?

  Love to all, DJ