?????

by ewtie 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    we have no idea of what other questions were asked of the JW at the convention. In a telephone conversation to the legal dept. of JWs only one snippet of a converstion was quoted, why nor more of it?. You will all surely agree that in this manner one can present any point of view.

    Yes, we know. The Watchtower uses this sort of technique constantly (quotes truncated to alter the meaning, out-of-context quotes, etc.), particularly in literature like the Trinity brochure and the Creation book. I can understand a TV producer who has a 20-minute segment to work with having to keep it short. But why does the Watchtower do it in writing their literature? - if there is any reason other than deception, that is.

    I have an inherent sense of injustice, somewhat irrational I sometimes think and hate injustice in any shape or form. I would certainly not vilify people as some do on this site.

    Yet this well-developed "sense of injustice" allows you to swallow whatever excuses the Watchtower gives you about child abuse in the organization without a second thought, despite overwhelming evidence that they are lying? That is "somewhat irrational". I would think that a well-developed "sense of injustice" would cause you to question the whole judicial arrangement among Jehovah's Witnesses. Hearings are held in secret star-chambers and everything except the verdict is kept completely secret, even if the accused wishes to make it known. Now there's an atmosphere where justice can really prevail!! Ask yourself: how would you ever know if injustice was being done on an ongoing basis under this system? Are you naive enough to believe that injustices never happen? Or is it just easier not to think about it too much?

    having been a Witness for 45 years I have only heard of one pedophile in the organisation and he had repented.

    Perhaps you haven't been paying close enough attention. I was a JW for just under 30 years, and knew two people personally who were pedophiles. Both were ministerial servants. Many others in this forum can testify of the pedophiles they have known personally; some are here because they have been the victims - and victims again of the elders.

    The Panorama programme just does not add up to my many years experience in the Truth.

    Try spending some time investigating the organization honestly, instead of just swallowing whole whatever they spoon-feed you. Here's a good place to begin: www.freeminds.org

  • ChristianObserver
    ChristianObserver

    Hello Ewtie :o)

    You write: >>No one has to be a Witness, or have you overlooked that?

    Well there are many Jehovah's Witnesses who have been born into Jehovah's Witness families Ewtie and have, therefore, been brought up by their parents with the expectation that they too will join the organisation. This is much the same if you have been brought up by Jewish parents, you will be expected to follow Judaism; if brought up by Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, atheists, you will be exposed to the teachings of that *faith* by your family and there is a strong likelihood that you will follow the same path as your parents before you unless you are exposed to the beliefs of different faiths, move to a country which practises a different religion, go to a different faith school, befriend or marry someone of a different faith, make a conscious decision to follow a different path etc etc.

    In those religions where the *initiation* occurs whilst the candidate is still a minor it could be argued that there may have been strong familial/congregational/peer pressures for a commitment to be made. I think that in most religions there will be those who felt that they *had* to become a member for various reasons. Once a commitment has been made, if that commitment is later regretted and the candidate wishes to revoke *membership* of that particular group/faith/organisation, in some cases they can just walk away. But this is not true for all groups/faiths/organisations, and for some members, the penalties for leaving as set by the group are viewed as too extreme/painful/emotionally damaging for leaving to be attempted and so they stay. In many instances, those who have made a commitment to a particular group had no idea at the time of commitment about the penalties which would be applied to them should they wish to leave.

    But on another level your statement is true in that it is not necessary to be a member of the WTBTS in order to *witness* and baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as Jesus commanded us in Matthew's gospel.

    >>Panorama prog., the producer admitted on Sky television that she hated JWs.

    If you check the name of the producer of the Panorama programme you will find that it is Murdoch Rodgers. The *she* whom you cite is actually a *he* so could you please let us know which programme on Sky you watched and who actually said that they hated JWs? His voice is distinctive as he is Scottish btw! It is important that we check out the accuracy of this statement as do you not find it questionable that the producer of such a programme as Panorama which is a well respected programme, would appear on a Sky TV programme stating that *he* hated Jehovah's Witnesses when he had just produced a programme about them? Thanks :o)

    Betsan Powys, the reporter, was interviewed after the Panorama programme and if someone is clever enough to provide the link to this subsequent interview (pretty please) you will hear her say: "I do not hate the Jehovah's Witnesses".

    Her problem, Ewtie - and it is a problem that those who viewed the programme share with her - is the policy followed by the WTBTS which by attempting to deal with reported abuse cases where a Jehovah's Witness is the perpetrator, *in house*, without reference to outside authorities, appears to protect the paedophile but discriminate against the victim because of the enforcement of the *two witness* policy. Imo as well, the WTBTS's lack of due scriptural regard for the *false witness* position as outlined in Deuteronomy 19 vv 16 onwards is a serious omission which compounds the problem further and leaves a *false witness* unchallenged within the group. If this *false witness* is the perpetrator of the crime, his/her reputation goes unblemished whilst the victim who has reported the crime is effectively silenced, and the perpetrator is free to abuse again.

    >>If you believe the Panorama prog. please get in touch with me.

    Ewtie, I can understand your feelings which are probably much the same as were the feelings of ardent Roman Catholics when the first reports of child abuse started to emerge within the RC Church. The *covering up* by the Church has done much to damage its reputation and its credibility and in the past, this has been highlighted to me by Jehovah's Witnesses and it has appeared on a number of occasions within the WTBTS literature. The policies in the Roman Catholic Church have been found wanting and the process of dealing with the flak is underway.

    Time will tell whether the WTBTS will go through a similar process, but in the meantime, if there were any inaccuracies within the reporting on Panorama, I am sure that the Legal Department will be working on the case and there will be repercussions for the BBC. At the moment, however, the accuracy has gone unchallenged as far as I am aware, and in the absence of any challenge by the WTBTS, do you not think it safe to assume that the programme contained nothing worthy of challenge? The WTBTS has so far reacted by sending letters to congregations and an item has appeared on the official website. It has also disfellowshiped those who appeared on the programme speaking out on behalf of victims. But perhaps Ewtie, you could write to HQ and ask in which way they are going to challenge the programme producers and reporter?

    Now I can understand *not wishing to bring reproach on Jehovah*, but if in the future Mr Bowen's and Mrs Anderson's concerns about the size and mishandling of the problem within the organisation are confirmed in the public arena and the WTBTS is found lacking, do you not agree that this will bring more reproach on the organisation in just the same way as the Roman Catholic Church has brought reproach upon itself?

    >>You must be such suckers I'm sure that I can relieve you of a few quid.

    And warm christian greetings to you too :o)

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I heard Betsan Powys (the lead reporter) answer a direct question about hatred of JW's in the negative, too. I was especially looking out for such an obvious question.

    The Panorama program was typical of their well-researched and unbiased journalism.

  • SYN
    SYN
    Some of my main objections (my memory for names is terrible) are that we have no idea of what other questions were asked of the JW at the convention. In a telephone conversation to the legal dept. of JWs only one snippet of a converstion was quoted, why nor more of it?.

    Well exactly what more was needed to twist that already twisted statement made by the brother at the legal dept? Is there any way you can make that statement SOUND better? HUH? Go on, give it a try and see how far you get. When somebody says "WAIT ON JEHOVAH", how else can you possibly interpret that?

    You will all surely agree that in this manner one can present any point of view.

    LOL. How much of Panorama and Dateline did you watch, exactly? Do you think those poor girls were MAKING UP their stories on national television? Get real, buddy.

    The case of abuse somewhere in the USA. dates back to 1997, what about, presumably many, many other cases since then?. Was that the last case Panorama could find?

    Once again, I reiterate my previous point. Please watch the programs again, properly, and you will understand why these things took so long to bring to the light.

    When first interviewed the law officer was not even sure if those he had questioned were JWs, not the best of investigations!

    And I suppose that excuses the behaviour of the Elders! Right...

    As regards the Sky quote, I was told this in good faith, but will certainly check on this. I have heard further details of this, but this is hearsay and I could not vouch for this.

    Well, that's a good position to take, considering the people you have chosen to go up against on this site and how much more they know about this ENTIRE SITUATION in great depth than you do. I respect you for making this statement, and it is the only statement you've made so far that has told me that you are not a troll.

    For instance, I quote from Frus8ted "I told my mother in-law to "wait onJehovah"". Now he has actaully written those words, but how easy to omit others and completely change his viewpoint. Nothing personal Frus8ted.

    Well, perhaps F8 can clear this matter up for us, which I suspect he has already done, as I haven't read all of this thread yet.

    I have an inherent sense of injustice, somewhat irrational I sometimes think and hate injustice in any shape or form. I would certainly not vilify people as some do on this site.

    Vilify? Who, ush? You musht be joking! Why would we "vilify" anybody? Oh, you were talking about the Watchtower! Well, that's certainly not a "somebody", so I don't see what the problem is. The Tower is not a person, it is a meme. Get over it. Get a real religion

    My biggest problem with the Panorama programme is that in having been a Witness for 45 years I have only heard of one pedophile in the organisation and he had repented.

    Your Elders weren't exactly shouting news about molestation cases from the rooftops, now were they? In fact, I guarantee you that they were telling people not to talk about stuff like that, because then the gossipers would be reproved or DFd for slander. THAT is why you have not heard about it.

    The Panorama programme just does not add up to my many years experience in the Truth.

    No, you do no understand. It adds up to every year and everything I've seen in the "Truth", and I was Assimilated for well over a DECADE. If only you'd seen some of the things I've seen, dude.

    ewtie [ Profile Above ]
    Re: ????? Jul 27, 2002 15:09

    "have heard further details of this, but this is hearsay and I could not vouch for this."

    This is in reference to the scottish case.

    Apologies for the mistyping

    Note: I'm not whaling you, I just want you to reply. Since you've replied once, maybe you'll reply again. If you don't reply, we'll all know exactly why And welcome to the board. I know you'll stay if you have a strong enough spirit to acknowledge the real Truth.

  • ewtie
    ewtie

    Well what do I say?:-)

    Sometime before I joined this forum, which is a very short while, I said to my daughter (a JW with children and who was concerned about the Panorama report) that were I to hear of a case of child abuse I would take immediate action which would include, as is the WTBTS's policy, of reporting the matter to our police force. What can I do beyond that?. I abhor child abuse.

    Regarding B.Powys statement, I take it that you all believe other people especially your friends, which what I did. I also said that I would check this. In the light of your statements I will be even more determined to seek the truth of this. I accepted the statement in all good faith.

    Nothing excuses anyone from doing anything wrong, unfortunately the inclination to do so is in all of us, even when we try hard not to.

    Sadly perhaps, I am at an age where nothing surprises me.

    Neonmadman. I have for personal reasons searched a long time and deeply into the Bible. Nothing will alter my belief and I am sure I can answer any question you may put before me, unfortunately your minds are made up as mine is and unless someone has a question to which they are seeking a genuine answer further discussion, I feel, will lead nowhere and I have had my fill on other discussion groups about many subject all of which finish where they started.

    I am not backing off and will come back to the issue, bbut truly do any of you see much point in it?

    I sign off in the most friendly of way.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit