Are atheists more likely to be morally good than Christians?

by FusionTheism 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    The morality for Christians, as outlined in the N.T,is simply not good enough for the 21st Century. If you wish me to list the shortcomings of N.T/Christian morality, I will.

    Atheists are not a single, homogenous, like thinking group. They will see many things differently, and come to their own conclusions upon matters of Morals.

    Most Atheist/Humanists that I know use the rule of thumb that works well, i.e, "That which does the most good, and the least harm" is the best course of action.

    This principle is adaptable to time and circumstance, and has rarely let me down. So called "Christian" morality let me down in the past, it did not guide me into doing what is right.

  • done4good
    done4good

    Phizzy - Most Atheist/Humanists that I know use the rule of thumb that works well, i.e, "That which does the most good, and the least harm" is the best course of action.

    This principle is adaptable to time and circumstance, and has rarely let me down. So called "Christian" morality let me down in the past, it did not guide me into doing what is right.

    Well put.

    d4g

  • StrongHaiku
    StrongHaiku

    I have no problem saying atheists and Christians are EQUAL.

    Not sure what you mean by "EQUAL". I am assuming you mean that "atheists and Christians" are two groups that are both "equally"capable of good and bad. If that is the case, sure, I'll play along.

    But some people seem to have the belief that atheists are MORE likely to be morally good, or MORE likely to change the world for good, than Christians and theists.

    But what evidence do you have to support this claim?

    I am an atheist, and I do not make the claim that an atheist is likely to do more good than a Christian. Other atheists may disagree.

    What I would claim is that a person that is a <insert preferred religion here> that gets their marching orders from <insert preferred deity here> from their <insert preferred holy book here> and follows unquestioningly, is likely to do more bad. And, if people can't grasp that by looking at history and current events, I don't know what to tell you.

    If atheism is what causes people to do great positive things for the world...

    I do not agree with that proposition. Atheism, again, is not a world-view or a religion, etc. All it tells you is what I don't believe in on a very specific issue (i.e. God's existence). It does not tell you anything about my morality, what I fight for (e.g. social equality), how I make decisions (e.g. critical thinking), or inform you on my motivations for doing "good" or "bad", or tell you what is my favorite flavor of ice cream, etc.

    ..., then why weren't Martin Luther King, Jr., William Wilberforce, Isaac Newton, Francis Collins, Barack Obama, Mother Theresa, Abraham Lincoln, or John F. Kennedy atheists?

    So, should my response be a long list of non-Christian believers and atheists, and then debate who has the longer list or who has better/more famous people in it? In reality, I don't know why any of the above were not professed atheists. If I could answer that I would probably have the cure for religion.

  • TTWSYF
    TTWSYF

    An interesting question. Here's my answer.

    I agree that there are good and bad people of all faiths and of no faith at all as stated by others posted earlier.

    I think the standards of morality that we now have are because of people of faith in a supreme God.

    I think the same thing of hospitals, old age homes, orphanages, food banks, shelters and universities.

    Specifically those institutions were started by the Church and were only later adopted by others who saw the good and wanted to continue the good without faith.

    Again, that's not to say that there were no doctors, teachers, or those who wanted to help the poor, it's just that there weren't any of those people organized before the Church did it.

    just saying

  • freemindfade
    freemindfade

    FusionTheism, the people you listed shouldn't be measured by their beliefs but behavior, just like anyone else. Morality always boils down to behavior not what you believe. And I personally take the Humanist approach to morality as abrahamic religions have a lot of nonsensical baggage that is false morality in my opinion.

    And TTWSYF what you are saying is not true whatsoever I am afraid, I think the standards of morality that we now have are because of people of faith in a supreme God. The fact is that once someone said there is one and only god and he is MY god, that's when the moral shit hit the fan for the human race, case and point, the middle east!

    look what the Pagan Egyptians had long before any of the Desert God worshipping sheep herders wrote down a single word:


    I hate to break it to you but a good part of the original ten moral laws given by the desert god to the nomads, were in fact a few principles plagiarized from good ol pagan Egypt. Who seemed to have a better version quite honestly.

  • cofty
    cofty

    It's a silly question.

    There are atheists who subscribe to all sorts of crazy superstitions and ideologies. Tell me you are an atheist and you have still told me practically nothing about your character.

    Atheism isn't a thing. It's like the word gentile. It simply describes a one group of which you are not a part.

    Stalin was an atheist. Religion is just one of many damaging ideologies.

    What matters is a commitment to being rational. A person who lives an evidence-based life will consider the reasons for their moral decisions. Appeals to authority will not do.

    I would go as far as to say that genuine morality is impossible until you reject theism.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    I have thought about this long and hard. I have come to the conclusion that all those I know who worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster (may we all be touched by his noodliness) seem to be extremely well rounded and moral human beings. The values they obtain from His gospel have molded them into decent moral human beings, I genuinely feel that without a belief in Him these people would be out committing all sorts of atrocities.

    Alternatively it could just be that animals that live in herds are more successful if they cooperate rather than antagonise the group and will often reap rewards for positive behaviour.

    Your question is built on a straw man argument.

    BTW Mother Theresa was an evil self serving bitch.

  • millie210
    millie210

    My post above was so disjointed I should have waited until I had time to use some clarity of speech.

    My thoughts were that people swing back and forth. Things come in to vogue and go out. Religion was in and now it appears to be on its way out. Through it all, people still get born, dynasties still rise and fall - life goes on.

    As long as religion serves a purpose it will exist. That doesnt mean it creates better people. Rather, it seems to be a default position for people who dont want to "think" their own way through life. It also provides a bonding element.

    I think your question is worthy of thought Fusion - we have gotten to read some great quotes here because you got us going! I love Voltaire. He always says things some may not want to hear in a way they dont mind hearing.

    I agree cantleave - Mother Teresa is way overrated.

  • freemindfade
    freemindfade

    Alternatively it could just be that animals that live in herds are more successful if they cooperate rather than antagonise the group and will often reap rewards for positive behaviour.

    Cantleave this is very true. Evolution shows success can be improved through cooperation, then bam, now you have society, what keeps society strong, certain standards.

    Anyone who says morals come from knowing the Supreme Being (yhwh) who sheep herders made up not so long ago, how do you explain social "moral" standards present in ancient isolated tribes complete untouched by our silly middle easter religions (and the've been around since before your supposed YHWH made man). Because they are the same evolutionary success story.

    So certain basics are inherent to a strong social group trying to survive, ie don't murder your fellow tribe member, don't steal from him, and so on. Basics!

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent
    cofty: Mother Theresa
    Odious old hag.

    Haha- you beat me to it Cofty!

    Don't these theist advocates know how to use a search engine?

    Mother Theresa was pure evil in her belief, that because Jesus suffered, her 'victims' should also suffer.

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