Are atheists more likely to be morally good than Christians?

by FusionTheism 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Ruby456

  good question fusiontheism

  according to cognitive science deception and death are the two most pressing problems humans have had to grapple with in the past and also today. Religion addresses both and imo is the reason why it is more likely to change the world for good than atheism. for evidence look at its track record - we are here in the western world, at least, because of christianity. Okay yes there are as many arguments to say that religion has held us back. But the fact is that if we are saying that we have evolved for the better than one would have to factor in Christianity (in Christian lands anyway, in hindu lands it would be hinduism, in muslim lands it would be Islam etc) provided that we also acknowledge that religions have also held us back in just as many ways.

  I guess a counter argument is that we would have made even more progress if there was no religion. My argument against is that without religion humans would not even be here becasue of the twin issues of deception and death together with the fact of evolution that humans seek individual survival if left on their own. Religion fosters group formation. Atheism as far as I know fosters individual survival as individuals much more than survival as a group.

  btw: do I have to agree with atheists to earn a like? obviously as a thinking person I'm unlikely to do that

  
  
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  cofty

  Atheism as far as I know fosters individual survival as individuals much more than survival as a group

  Firstly you are conflating evolution and atheism. Most christians accept the fact of evolution and atheism doesn't foster anything other than lack of belief in deities.

  As far as evolution is concerned, often the most successful survival strategy is cooperation.
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  Ruby456

  thats what I said in my post cofty. don't tell me what I am conflating when it you who are doing the conflating.

  Back to OP. Fusiontheism and others, my thesis (from cognitive science) is that religion deals with the twin issues of deception and death very very effectively. Taking an evolutionary stance atheism does not have as effective an reply to those issues as it favours individuality more than group formation.

  edit: cofty I agree with this and if you re-read my post you will see that this is what I am arguing provided you take on board what fusiontheism is asking in his op

  As far as evolution is concerned, often the most successful survival strategy is cooperation.
  
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  cofty

  thats what I said in my post cofty. don't tell me what I am conflating when it you who are doing the conflating.

  So how exactly does a lack of belief in supernatural deities "foster individual survival as individuals"?
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  galaxie

  It is the belief in supernatural deities which christians accept for the justification of adherence to morals. The athiest does not require such justification and therefore imo (if living to a good moral standard ) does so without coercion or fear of gods judgement and wins on the moral justification score. That being said both groups can of course be equally moral in practical life.
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  Ruby456

  thats what I said in my post cofty. don't tell me what I am conflating when it you who are doing the conflating.
  

  So how exactly does a lack of belief in supernatural deities "foster individual survival as individuals"?

  cofty, imo via the continuuim of individual exploitation at one end and indivudual altruism at the other with individual competition against other individuals in the middle. However for myself I do value individualism
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  cofty

  cofty, imo via the continuuim of individual exploitation at one end and indivudual altruism at the other with individual competition in the middle.
  

  Sorry I but I haven't a clue how these words relate to my question

  My argument against is that without religion humans would not even be here becasue of the twin issues of deception and death

  I find this puzzling. Could you explain please?
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  Laika

  I don't know but introspection is always helpful. Whenever we think we derive our morality from the "group" we belong to, I think we are in danger of 'missing' our own evil. It is a dangerous path.
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  freemindfade

  Ruby456 I don't even know where to begin with what you said... we are here in the western world because of religion??? Ask the native Americans how they feel about that. They were organized and while they have religion of their own they don't have your imperialistic arrogant Abrahamic mind virus.

  Belief comes from background. And if you were born with no god, you would be an atheist, if you are interested in survival of self, and survival of self is improved by work in a group, as an individual you will protect the group ie morals.

  I think all the religious folks posting on this have got something twisted. Atheism is not another hair brained religion. It's absence of your desert god, or any other myth, it's the lack of belief in him or her and not a claim. Atheism is not a church and does not dictate morals to people who might subscribe to the thinking. Many of us, myself included, find that in this absence of GOD we have a freedom to practice good motivated from a truer source. Not for reward or punishment. Not because the church of atheism tells us to. I consider myself without title but close to humanist. I think you desert Sheppard god worshippers are mixing the two. Atheism and humanism. Humanism is more of a philosphy on morality atheism is nothing of the sort, it's about believing in your magic sky daddy or not. I know it makes you guys uncomfortable to think that anyone could have a moral action without being commanded it by yhwh but it's happening every single day. Yhwh is not the ultimate source or morals. Atheism is no source of morals at all! Get it right, this is why when religion ruled is was known as the dark ages
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  Ruby456

  freemindfade

  I haven't ever said that the west is the best, so how you can accuse me of having an arrogant imperialist mind virsu I don't know. I am simply using Christianity as an example because it is a world religion and because it is predominantly christian tradition that informs western thinking. wouldn't you agree that Humanism has a basis in Christian tradtion too?