by Frenchy 44 Replies latest jw friends

  • waiting

    Hey, Andyman,

    Thanks for the post, sometimes an "outsider" can ascertain things we are just too close to.

    "Can't see the forest for the trees."

    We really can argue this from both sides, quite well done, from the WTBTS literature. I also ask, why is that? But can it be argued both sides from the Bible?

    Friend usually (qualified) uses Society literature only. And, if I understand, that's his logic - prove it in writing. But that's one of the beauties of the Society, what our CO, DO, Assemblies, Conventions, etc, preach to us may - or may never, be in print. Are we not to listen to these teachers closer to God's channel than we will ever be?

    We are taught to listen to them as spokesmen for the Society. Perhaps we listen too well - and now we can't prove sufficiently in writing. Perhaps this is also the Society's plan? Lawyers!!!!

  • Roamingfeline
    “Jesus was saying that we should not be judging one another…(Matt. 7:1-5)”

    No Witness applies [that statement above] to worldly people .


    Well, here are three short references disputing that claim (all emphasis added):

    Further, Jesus counseled his followers, not to complain about “the straw” of faults observed in our fellow humans , but to be well aware of the larger “rafter” of shortcomings that we ourselves have. (Matthew 7:1-5)—Is All Complaining Bad? , The Watchtower, 1997 21/1: 30

    He tells us as disciples that if we, as imperfect, sinful creatures, do not want to be judged and condemned ourselves, then we should not take it upon ourselves arbitrarily to judge and condemn our neighbor . (Matt. 7:1-5; Luke 6:37; compare Romans 2:1-3.)—Wrong Desires Destructive , Commentary on James, 1979: 4

    The way to life is that of abiding by Jesus’ teachings. But this is not easy to do. The Pharisees, for example, tend to judge others harshly, and likely many imitate them. So as Jesus continues his Sermon on the Mount, he gives this admonition: “Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged.”….

    This does not mean that Jesus’ disciples are to use no discernment in connection with other people ,….—The Most Famous Sermon Ever Given , Greatest Man, 1991: Chapter 35



    What you said in your posts, as well as several other posters here on this thread, makes alot of sense. The above referenced sayings of the Watchtower, were the usual doublespeak of "Do as we say and not as we do!"

    It matters not to me the semantics of what they SAY in their published items. It is what they DO that counts. And actions speak much louder than mere words.

    Friend, you love to "stir dust" to obscure the truth of the matter. The society in it's talks tells it's people to do things that they don't DARE publish in print. And I have some of those talks on tape. You're not fooling anyone by twisting words and trying to turn people round and round until they can hardly remember what their point was in the first place. Frenchy was right on the mark.


  • Frenchy

    I thank all of you for reading and responding to the posts here. Most of you here have been very complimentary and I thank you for that. The primary purpose of this thread was not necessarily about what is taught about salvation (although I think that we have pretty much established that beyond reasonable doubt) but more a discussion on the 'double talk' that is used in this particular instance.
    There are plenty more and I invite anyone here who is so inclined to present to us YOUR pet issue in which one thing is said for the sake of the public and yet another thing is preached to the flock.

  • Seven

    Hey Carmel and Kismet, I provided a URL to a site
    my prof recommended. Very basic but informative.

    Rhw, I'm on vacation this week and I'm going horseback riding. lol Never been next to a horse, this ought to be good. Should I bring a treat for it?

    [url= http://www.islam.-guide.com/frm-ch1-7.thm]

  • Seven

    I going to try this link again:

    [url= http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-7.htm]

  • RedhorseWoman

    7, going riding? That's great. By all means bring a treat for the horse. Those poor stable horses get yanked around a lot by newbies. I know they would appreciate something nice.

    All horses like apples and carrots. Some like peppermints, Coke, oranges, and pears. Bring an apple and a couple of carrots....they'll love you for it.

  • katchoo

    My favorite WT two-faced statements:

    On their FAQ page they say "Disfellowshipping does not sever family ties."

    I personally happen to know from several different experiences that this statement is pure BS. I have seen a cargroup of JWs out in service pass by a disfellowshipped person broken down on the side of the road, justifying their not stopping to help because of the disfellowshipping. That is the most "unchristian" thing I have ever heard of for a supposed "christian" religion to encourage.

    Also, it is very hard for a person who has been disfellowshipped (esp. one who was disfellowshipped unjustly) to cope when they are no longer consulted in matters regarding their children, aging parents, or other relatives that they love very much. They are no longer welcome at weddings, funerals, baby showers, etc etc etc...
    ..unless of course they are willing to finance the whole thing. In my experience, then they are welcome to be there, but they will be treated like dirt.

    I shudder to think that I used to treat people that way for no other reason than a group of men said to. If that isn't the height of being judgmental, I dont know what is.


  • Frenchy

    One of the very last straws for me as an elder was the very sad case of a dear, elderly sister in our congregation who lost two sons within days. One had been ailing for quite some time and she was waiting for the call to tell her he was gone. The other son was younger, in good health, but he was disfellowshipped. There was a terrible accident and the younger son got killed. She was devasted as we can all imagine. She came to me and asked me to do the funeral. Two of the other three elders went through the roof when I said that I would do it. I had to call the C.O. who, after much muttering and saying nothing, said that I was not to do the funeral. I had to go back and tell the family that the Society would not allow it.
    The family, most of which are witnesses, had to go find a minister (from Babylon the Great) who would do the funeral. A group of some one hundred people sat and listened to minister from an 'outside' religion give the funeral discourse. It was a woman preacher BTW and she did a good job and I told her so afterwards. I heard some people talking and they were asking why it was that her (the mother) preacher (me) wasn't doing the funeral for her son! Very bad witness! Some of our congregation did not even show up because the man was DF'd. Never mind the poor mother who needed all the comfort she could get. I stayed with the family throughout the whole ordeal and my wife and I went back to the mother's house after the funeral. One of her daughters gave her a pill to help her sleep and as she was getting up to go to bed, the phone rang. Her other son had just died. She almost went mad with grief. This time I was permitted to do the funeral because this man was baptized and in good standing.
    There was even more confusion on the part of the community inasmuch as they had seen me as a spectator at the first funeral and now I was doing the second funeral. This angered me considerable and I almost walked out right then and there.

  • Carmel

    I think you're the sweet treat!

    Have a great time and look forward to your return.


  • Frenchy

    Have fun, Seven. We'll all miss you until you come back.

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