Even convicted criminals get lesser sentences.
Even convicted criminals get visitors.
Come to think of it...Even convicted criminals get JW visitors. LOL.
Wait a minute...maybe i prefer the harsher sentence.
SPAZ
Hardline on disfellowshipped ones
by eyeslice 55 Replies latest jw friends
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SPAZnik
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Englishman
This is the bit with the unsubtle instruction:
13. After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.
We have something of a reversal of this situation in my family. Mum is in, us 2 brothers are out!
But, we 2 evil ne'er do wells give our JW mum financial support, keep her mobile by buying her a new car occasionally and sometimes take her on holiday.
She never misses Panorama either. Something tells me that she will watch Panorama, think about how the elders have been instructed to deal with paedophiles, and then wonder if she should listen to these self-same people who are telling her to dump her family!!!
Englishman.
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eyeslice
Interesting comments Thirdson.
There was an item on this year's District Convention urging youngsters from an early age not to hold back from getting baptised. No mention of course, if they later screw up, than they risk being shunned, becoming a non-person.
My experience of late is that youngsters and their families are wise to this. Most are leaving it later, rather than sooner to get baptised. So if your son and daughter decides to leave and go college, persue a worldly career or simply fade out, there is far less of a come back if they never were baptised.
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scootergirl
My thoughts exactly.......
Many of us were baptized as youths (teenagers). I, for one, didn't really comprehend the extent of my decision. I have made this comment before..
If a teenager was to try to get permission to marry at a young age, say 15/16, how many dub parents would allow this? How many would rejoice at the decision and give their permission? Who in their right mind would like a teenager make a decision like that......
BUT.......
Many dub parents promote the idea of baptism. Rejoice at the fact that their "children" are making a life-long comittment to an organization. I would love to see the study before baptism to include a chapter about the consequences of leaving the "truth" and exactly what that all entails. I mean ALL that it entails.....the shunning, the heartache...everything.
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blondie
Eyeslice, does it say anything about how those who disobey these directives will be handled? Will they be facing a JC and possible disfellowshipping? The most flagrant abusers of this I have seen are 1) elders associating with family members and 2) elders in business with disfellowshipped ones. When this has been pointed out to elder bodies and/or COs in the past, they are very reluctant to pursue it at all.
Will that change?
Edited by - Blondie on 13 July 2002 10:6:57
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Mary
".....Jesus' words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let (the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus' hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones...."
What a load of SHIT!! It's utterly amazing how the Writing Department twists the scriptures continuously to suit their own purposes. Since when did JW's ever compare themselves to 1st Century Jews?? They NEVER do because every article in the WT is always comparing Christendom to "unfaithful" Jews of that time, not themselves. And lest they forget, it was the Pharisees that condemned Jesus.......for what? For eating with the prostitutes and the TAX COLLECTORS!! Obviously Jesus did not condone prostitution or the thievery that went hand in hand with the title of "tax collector", but neither did he ever teach that these people were to be totally ignored as though they didn't exist either. That always came from the hypocritical, arrogant Pharisees who were possitive that they and they alone knew what was right.......What an example of history repeating itself!!
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DakotaRed
This is pure and simple emotional blackmail, as far as I am concerned. Jesus sat and ate with the tax collectors, did he not? Yet, after his death, along comes Paul, whose words mysteriuosly have come to take precedence over Jesus', and says to avoid and shun the very ones that Jesus sat and ate with.
To take Paul's words literally, as the JWs apply them to DF'd and DA'd ones, shouldn't the dubs have totally cutoff all contact with the "men of the nations?" If treating DF'd and DA'd ones as "men of the nations" means to shun and totally avoid them, shouldn't they also curtail their weekly visits to neighborhoods spreading their messsage?
When I read the "headship arrangement" at 1 Corinthans 11:3, I fail to see any mention of "provided he is in good standing with the Watchtower." If the man is actually considered the head of the house with the responsibility to teach the family God's Word, does he not have a God given right to teach it as he sees true? Yet, the Watchtower strips him of this right if he doesn't teach it strictly as taught by the Watchtower. Does this emotional blackmail draw a family closer? I think not. Rather, it rips them apart and reduces the man to little more than a "sugar daddy" providing for a family of engrates that live off of him yet shun and ignore him. He is left with little choice but to deny his own feelings and return, or divorce and try to get on with life and completely lose his family. Does this not also go against Jesus' words at Matthew 19:6?
RSV Matthew 19:6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
Like I said, it is emotional blackmail and torture perfected. The Watchtower indeed will have much to answer for. They had better pray that they are right and there is no eternal hell.
Lew W
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JT
excellent post, in fact we have discussed this issue many times here- some former jw believe that the wt will lighten it's load by revising it many policies that are so heavy- in my view and the view of others that is wishful thinking
anyone who studies and reads up on High Control Groups are well aware that the last thing they offer to their members is a more freedom - if anything they make thier life more burdensom
in fact we have seen so many signs of that- now that they are no longer mailing out subs the local jw must drive around town delivering mags to doors and areas that they normallly would not be going to anyway- when you consider that the mailman had to go to that house anyway to drop off the Credit Card offers for 0% interest- smile
the cost of a 20 jw in a typical congo driving around the territory delievering mags will cost more in time , energy, gas and wear on their car than the little $.0.52 or so it would cost the wt to do BULK MAILING.
BUT the wt has never cared about making the life of jw easy if anything harder- they have been know to uproot 10s of 1000;s of jw in one city to move the district convention to another over just a FEW DOLLARS on renting the building
just think if it cost $22,000 to rent the place and they are asking for say $25,000 would not moving old folks, single sisters with kids to an entirely different city where they now must stay i hotels actuall cost more
but the boys from bethel are flying in on society expense staying in the complimentary rooms at the hotels or staying with the local weathy jw- no bethel speaker in the last 10yrs has stayed with sister poor and her 3 kids--smile
i personallly believe that the wt will crack down on INACTIVE JW I can see the wt saying that due to living so deep in the time of the end we must take our stand now, they will instruct the elders ALONG WITH COs to review all inactive pub cards they will then be asked to visit these person asking them DO THEY WANT HELP TO COME BACK TO JAH SINCE there is NO SUCH THING AS AN INACTIVE WITNESS, if the person says yes- a pioneer or pub will be assigned to study with them and get them back into a FINE THEOCRATIC ROUTINE MEETINGS , SERVICE AND READING THE LITERATURE.
IF THE person says no i will get back with you like many of us say when the elders stop by- we will be informed that the slave has revealed that thru your IN-ACTION you have identified yourself as no LONGER WANTED TO BE PART OF THE PURE CLEAN CONGO-
YOUR NAME WILL be read off as being DAed-
what this will do is separate and id clearly those jw who will do what ever they are told all the fence riders will be IDed.
the wt in my view would perfer to have 2millions DYED IN THE WOOL DOWN TO THE BONE. SOLID TO THE CORE JW who give them total allegence, unquestioning, etc that to have 6or 7 half/slack jw.
currently the new policy for elders resigning is to BE QUESTIONED MORE as to the reason, just saying i need to step back for a moment is no longer acceptable based on the recent instructions from patterson-
so if you got some GUN HO body of elders and you are trying to resign they rightfully can grill you to death..
so don't expect the wt to lighten it's load no time soon
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waiting
Hey eyeslice,
As mentioned, this topic has been discussed - but your introduction was EXCELLENT! Thank you for those points and expounding on those scriptures. I know a lot of people have talked about the *meaning* behind the scriptures quoted by the WTBTS to "scripturally" backup their demonic (imho) practice of shunning family, friends, strangers, for the rest of the df'd, da'd person's life.
But your explanation was efficient and easy to grasp - which for me on Saturday morning, is a necessity, thank you.
My husband just asked me if there was any more written about the new hardline df'ing - will print out this thread for him.
Btw, Thirdson has a good thread up now on the New Improved Wording over at the Official WT site on *properly* shunning family.
waiting
Edited by - waiting on 13 July 2002 11:3:1
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bad_associashun
cygnus- are you saying this post is not the actual km, that eyeslice has made this up? why is it so surprising that the wts would take this stand in 2002?
Considering all the persons effected by their loving & merciful shunning resulting in broken homes, loss of friends, and as was stated: 'a life sentence', it is quite obvious why they feel the need to further manipulate & control the troops thru emotional blackmail- they are, and have always been, in fear of their opposers.
thank you for posting this up eyeslice - excellent thoughts dakotared & mary