Spare the rod and spoil the child?

by Marilyn 40 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Marilyn

  Dustrabbit, I kinda do still live in HK but I'm in Australia at the moment - I go back and forth. My husband, an exjw too is still there, and if he's free I'm sure he'd like to catch up with you. There is plenty to do and see in HK - it all depends on what you like doing. The 18th is a Thursday? So David will be at work. If I had a day to kill in HK in the middle of summer, I'd go to Central Star Ferry and hop on a 260 or 6 or 6A bus and go to Stanley Market. It's a lovely ride over to the market with great views and the market is fun (full of Americans though). There are plenty of nice places to eat on the waterfront and shopping is reasonable (not compared to china though).

  Tell me what you like and I'll recommend where to go? Temples???? hehehe. I could give you directions to the Branch Office - you can be impressed as I am by their getting such a prized piece of realestate years before property prices skyrocketed in HK. How WTS eh?

  My email is: [email protected] David's home email is: [email protected] We were in the troof for about ten years btw.

  Marilyn
• 

  DakotaRed

  SS, as a historical account, yes I accept that they used to stone certains to death. But, to use "spare the rod and spoil the child" as justification to beat your child, I do not accept.

  *** Rbi8 Proverbs 1:8 *** 8 Listen, my son, to the discipline of your father, and do not forsake the law of your mother.

  *** Rbi8 Proverbs 4:1 *** Listen, O sons, to the discipline of a father and pay attention, so as to know understanding

  *** Rbi8 Proverbs 5:7 *** So now, O sons, listen to me and do not turn away from the sayings of my mouth.

  *** Rbi8 Proverbs 8:32-33 *** And now, O sons, listen to me; yes, happy are the ones that keep my very ways. 33 Listen to discipline and become wise, and do not show any neglect.

  As the above scriptures, taken from the NWT, show, the admonition to ones being disciplined is to listen, not to endure the pain. As one who raised children, I found that discipline should be fair and balanced. I never disciplined when angry. Discipline is designed to teach, not inflict pain or injury.

  Personally, in my case, I have always felt that the reason I didn't pass on the abuse suffered at the hands of my parents, was due mainly to a desire that my children never feel the fear I had as a child. Also, in no small part, my two trips to Vietnam helped me a lot. I was a fairly angry person when I went. Most of my anger was expended over there. By the time my children were born, I just wanted to give the childhood I never had and ensure they never endured what I did.

  *** Rbi8 Psalm 23:4 *** Even though I walk in the valley of deep shadow,
  I fear nothing bad,
  For you are with me;
  Your rod and your staff are the things that comfort me.

  Here, God's rod brings comfort. As already stated, the rod being spoken of is that of a shepherd. NO shepherd beeats his flock, rather, he uses the rod to nudge and guide them along. When contact is made with animal, it is a light pushing of the animal to return it to the path, not beating it until it goes where he wants.

  Lew W
• 

  dustrabbit

  Marilyn:
  Thanks for the info...i'll catch up with you later in email.

  by the way, I think there should be a clarifaction about Chinese children. In Taiwan and Hong kong, there is often more thna one child in the family. But in China, there is the one-child policy to control the population expansion...they need it, believe me.

  So, this one child gets all the attention possible..only one chance, right? So, in mainland China you got the parents and both sets of gradparents spoiling the child. They don't say "no" or at least very rarely. So, the kids turn into what they call "Little Emperor/Empress" (xiao huang di/ho. Actually "xiao huang ho" for girls actually sounds dirty in english, but I digress.)

  and basically the parents just sit there and take it from the kid...to admit that the kid has a problem is losing face b/c the parents are in effect saying they failed in rasing their kid correctly/effectively/successfully.

  (edited to correct)But all the taiwanese that i have known throughout the years who have kids are --not-- afraid of spanking, they just --won't-- do it in public...more of that "losing face" thing.

  the dustrabbit

  Edited by - dustrabbit on 10 July 2002 1:20:17
• 

  Marilyn

  Dustrabbit, Maybe the Honkies spank their kids in private too? I thought they exerted pressure via other more subtle means. The Honkies are not that far removed from mainland China actually. Just a few years since the majority crossed the boarder to HK. Many of the ideologies and customs remain strong. The opulence in HK has had its affect though - western ways are erroding Chinese values. God I hate the influence of junk food in HK. So many fat people there now compared to when I first arrived in HK in 1985. I hate to see the petite women sporting western lard arses!! What ever made them think we were sohphisticated?

  Are you leaving China for good? Do you speak Cantonese?

  Marilyn
• 

  dustrabbit

  Marilyn:
  I'm sure the HKers spank in private too. By the way, Guangzhou is catching up in opulence also. And Western fast food, but no Yucko Bell, um, Taco Bell nor is there any Mountain Dew to be found here either.

  As for western arses on petite Chinese women, I think if it's just a little round, that's great....too many flat butts here if I really think about it. My wife included. But if it's too big on a petite body, and I ahve to be reminded of that "Baby Got Back" song from Sir Mix-a-lot...or whatever he's called. ....oops, that's not about the topic...

  Well, anyway, I'm not sure if i'm leaving China for good. But I need to get away form the horrible situation i find myself in...that's for sure. Speaking Cantonese/Guangdonghua: No, just a few words...I can actually distinguish Mandarin/Putonghua from Cantonese/Guangdonghua now that I've been here in Guangzhou, Guangdong for a year. Actually, if you speak putonghua/Mandarin Chinese, you'll do okay in Guangzhou, since it's still part of China...it's just Cantonese people here prefer you to speak Cantonese with them if you know it...I'm glad my linguistics minor, my semester of Chinese, and having friends who are Chinese, helped me out on the language issues here...but my wife wasn't much help tho'.

  the dustrabbit

  Edited by - dustrabbit on 10 July 2002 1:51:14
• 

  Marilyn

  Dustrabbit, We never learned Cantonese, which was the tradititonal language in HK up until 97, besides English of course. They are forcing Putonghua on HK quite a bit now. Putonghua news on at prime time etc. We were only going to stay 2 yrs and then it was for just another 2 yrs and so on - so we never learned the lingo. Save a few words here and there.

  My fixation with the body shape is down to certain diseases that the Chinese have been immune to till recently. For example breast cancer in the US is now affecting one in 8 women. Traditionally Chinese women have had extremely low rates of bc - yet as they chow down on western tucker the incidence of breast cancer (and prostate cancer in men) is rocketing. It seems to have happened very quickly in HK.

  It sounds sensible of you to get away from your current situation. When you are in a hole, stop digging. I'm sure you will love being back on US soil.

  Marilyn I think I've digressed from the subject even more than you!!!
• 

  dustrabbit

  Marilyn: Some of it may be diet -- but not necessarily Western food -- now much of the pollution hangin garound HK is from the Pearl River Delta, i.e. Guangzhou, Zhuhai, huizhou, Shenzhen (across the border from HK), and Dongguan. So, the seafood is picking up terribly high levels of cargogenic toxins...not too mention a lot of the food that is coming in from Mianland China that wouldn't even pass a FDA (US Food and Drug Admin) foos safety test.
  
  A piece of trivia about fast food in Guangzhou: McDonald's has over 36 stores here. They even had a riot thanks a "Hello Kitty" doll promotion. Kids here love McD's...thank god, they don't have them in Kunming, where my stepson lives. Whenever he has sugar, he's even more violent.

  Actually, to touch on Behavior Problems in China, there was a recent article on the Los Angeles times website about the high lvels of lead in children living in Shenzhen. As you might know, high levels of lead in children causes behavioral problems. And since China prides itself on Shenzhen being one of the cleaner cities in China, what does that say about Guangzhou or Beijing or Shanghai...they're megatropolises with lots of cars...and gasoline/petrol here isn't unleaded.

  the dustrabbit
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  Marilyn

  Dustrabbit, I heard that Shenzhen is fairly disgusting to visit. The pollution situation in China is just awful, but it doesn't seem to be highly related to breast cancer. Lung cancer & heart disease maybe. Traditionally the chinese have eaten much less animal fat as part of their daily calorie intake than western people. Something like 16% of calories consummed are in the form of animal fat compared to 34% in the western diet. (figures are approx). Your comment about the McDonalds where you are sounds much like hk. When we first moved to hk in 85, our local McDonalds outlet was the busiest in the world. Also I've noticed that the Chinese don't really understand western food. They are much less discerning about what is disgusting than we are (and god knows we're not verydiscerning). It's been my observation that the more greesy and disgusting a fast food is, the quicker the Chinese jump in to consume it. The only thing is that it won't affect the older generation as it will the kids. This is because older people were raised on a good diet.

  It's been well documented that Japanese women who migrated to Hawaii have increased risk of bc compared with those who stayed in Japan. However the daughters of the immigrants have the 1 in 8 risk factor the same as other American women. No real pollution factor - just diet I'm afraid. I have strong family history of bc so am very intereted in this subject. Korea and Thailand have lowest bc rates in the world. Interesting?

  Marilyn ps diesel from taxis & trucks in hk is the worst problem.
• 

  Bang

  "But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked."

  The ways of the wtbts are death.

  Bang
• 

  Sadie5

  This is one of the reasons my husband and I were looked upon as spiritually week. We have 5 children and and when they were babies/toddlers we never spanked them for not being able to sit through the meetings. Sometimes for the two hour meetings we would just choose to attend one of them and leave or come in late. the kids could hardly sit through Barney or Sesame Street, and they liked those shows.

  If we did attend both meetings, we would give ourselves and the kids a little break at the end of one and beginning of another by going ourside the building and letting them walk around a little. We did this with assemblies too, never attending a full day, just choosing certain sections of it. Eventually the kids were able to sit quietly through an entire two hours, we were complimented on how behaved they were.

  Of course the elders didn't like it, not being there for all our spiritual food. I said they can't eat an adult's portion in literal food, why should we expect them to eat a full portion of spiritual food?

  I can still remember the cries and screams from the restrooms, it was usually the same kids.

  Sadie