Spare the rod and spoil the child?

Marilyn

I saw a report on tv just now of how two Baptist mininisters beat the living daylights out of some kid for not attending the correct Bible class. The kid suffered kidney damage and the ministers have been arrested. This reminded me of how my jw brother used to take his boys out the back and beat them black and blue every time his patience ran out with them for not sitting still for 2+ hours. (yes I think he beat them hard enough to bruise them).

I know that JWs are particularly in favor of "spare the rod and spoil the child" - but is a 3 yo who can't sit still for 2 hours spoilt? What is it about very religious people and beating their kids?

Marilyn

DakotaRed

Beatings are never productive to rearing a child. Although my daughters were occasionally spanked when very small, they were never beat. No child deserves a beating, no matter what.

Although not JWs, my parents favorite was for my Mom to rip a small branch off the cherry tree outside, rake all the leaves off and then briskly apply it to my backside, from head to toe, often when wearing only shorts. My Dad would stand in front and if I shed a tear or wimpered, I got the belt across the face. Throwing street shoes was another favorite of my Dads. If I got a bloody nose, then that was too bad, I should have responded quicker.

Only in the last few years did I tell my daughters about my upraising. They were shocked as I never treated them anything like that. Maybe that is why I am in Washington State and my family is in Florida.

Spare the rod and spoil the child is not necessarily a literal scripture, as far as I am concerned. Even if it were, no child deserves to be beat.

Lew W

safe4kids

Hi Marilyn,

What is it about very religious people and beating their kids?

I think it has something to do with the dehumanization that occurs primarily in the OT books, at least in part. In my family, even tho my father was never a JW, children were viewed as property, and certainly never as individuals. It was my parents' "duty" to make sure that we were properly obedient, which included a generous use of the rod. I think so much of it has to do with control. If you desire total control over another person, which is IMO what many religions teach parents to strive for with their children, how much respect for them as an individual can you really have? Methinks absolutely none. The lack of respect and dehumanization process leads to abuses of power, which is obvious in every dysfunctional relationship, to a greater or lesser degree.

Of course, I have known some deeply religious people who didn't abuse their children...do you think they are more the exception than the rule?

Dana

Beck_Melbourne

Hi Marilyn

How are you? I must call you for a chat.

As for jw's smacking their kids for not sitting still in the meetings....well I knew one elder who used to smack his kids with his hand on the back of the legs and bottom if they didn't sit still during the meetings. He thought this was mild compared to some...as it was not unusual to see sisters take a weapon (ie. wooden spoon), so he didn't think he was as bad as some parents. It probably doesn't sound all that bad to spank your kids...but this elder used to mark their legs with bruises...'no pain no gain' were his words. I believe his wife decided she had had enough, and she packed up her things and has taken up residence in Melbourne - with the kids.

Beck

gsx1138

Being a new parent I know what it is like to lose all patience. It is very hard to maintain control sometimes but it can be done. I think anyone who beats their child should be beaten themselves. I remember that that verse was used by my step dad to beat the hell out of me. My mother wouldn't say anything because she was busy trying to be the submissive wife. Perhaps that pushed me into martial arts and a whole new set of problems with the elders. Bottom line, my daughter gets a spanking every once and awhile but I prefer the timeout method. She hates timeout.

gsx1138

DakotaRed

gsx, my daughters hated getting a lecture (as they called it, I called it reasoning). They can't remember any spankings, maybe because there were so few, but they sure remember the talks. They told me they sometimes wished I would have spanked them and got it over. In the end, they decided to behave so as to avoid being bored to death by old Dad, LOL.

The main thing is to be consistent and fair. If you disciplined one unfairly, be big enough to admit and apologize. My oldest daughter remembers very well when I sent her to the corner, found out I was wrong and said how sorry I was. That is the ame way she is raising her kids now.

Lew W

Beck_Melbourne

children were viewed as property, and certainly never as individuals. It was my parents' "duty" to make sure that we were properly obedient, which included a generous use of the rod. I think so much of it has to do with control.

I couldn't agree with you more Dana...I associated with a lot of families who exercised this control to the limits where kids and discipline were concerned. I was never meant to be a jw...but I was meant to be a mother. The best that ever happened to my kids was me leaving the borg and their control freak father.

Beck

Incense_and_Peppermints

you know, god sure missed a few key things when he handed down those commandments. like the one that says "honor thy father and thy mother". i always thought it should have said "honor thy father and they mother and thy children". you would think a perfect all-powerful all-knowing god wouldn't overlook such an important thing. why would god tell us turn the other cheek when we are hit, but then tell us to hit our own children? hitting is not discipline, it's a way to instill fear in the very young to get them to obey you. it's about control. how can you expect a little child to be anything but a child. they are going to squirm when they are sitting still for long periods, especially at those ungodly meetings! i do in fact think the wooden spoon scenario isn't tame at all. why should you have to use a belt or branch or spoon or even your hand to strike a child? you (editorial you) wouldn't permit a caregiver to do that would you? you would be outraged. so why is it ok for a parent to strike a child? there are a zillion other ways to discipline children with love and to demonstrate your authority. if you're diligent and creative. children are vessels. they are sponges. they absorb everything around them. we fill them with what we do, as their parents and their mentors and their guides and their guardians. why shouldn't we fill them with love and teach them and help them, without hitting them? it's archaic as far as i'm concerned. it's unenlightened. it's too easy to hit. it is black-and-white. there are many gray areas in life but this isn't one of them. hitting is hitting, even if you call it "spanking". you can be authoritative and demonstrate your power without hitting. the absence of corporal punishment does not negate your parental authority. any child can be reached and taught to respect authority. any child. all they need is love.

please note: i am not saying parents who use corporal punishment are bad, or don't love their children. i'm just expressing my view of it.

p.s. yes i was hit with a belt, my father's favorite tool of punishment. my mother's favorite was an oleander branch, which like dakota, she made us harvest, clean and wet ourselves, to inflict the most exquisite pain on our little bare legs and arms. i can remember thinking if you love me mommy/daddy, why are you hurting me? i wouldn't hurt you this way***

Marilyn

I put some of the excessive hitting down to appearences. Witnesses like to be seen to be in control - being good parents by dub standards, with lovely quiet managable children. It's all part of the image they strive to live up to. Maybe too there is a little bit of their own frustration coming thru. Meetings are dead boring and add an annoying toddler to the equation and the temper over boils. Who wouldn't rather be home relaxing in front of the tv with the toddler playing happily on the floor with it's toys?

Incense_and_Peppermints

Who wouldn't rather be home relaxing in front of the tv with the toddler playing happily on the floor with it's toys?

the toddler, for starters

i suspect that the fear is that their peers (or elders) might think them spiritually weak because they have "unmanageable little monsters" running about. which illustrates the point that they care more about what the society thinks than about following their own hearts and doing the right thing by their children. too freakin' bad...

p.s. i love that "appearances" comment-----

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Spare the rod and spoil the child?

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