McKinney Texas pool party?

by Marvin Shilmer 305 Replies latest social current

• 

  Billyblobber

  And, also, the "well it's the parents" thing, that shows that people attempt to only think of the most recent cause in a cause/effect situation. Their parents grew up in the same or even worse situations, so...? It's just a blame-deflection that was touched on earlier - basically, "I am/would be a better parent so my kid wouldn't have to worry about this - I DO have control!" A way of propping oneself up as opposed to empathizing with and trying to figure out ways to help the most people out.

  Marvin, the issue is that since no place is perfect, everyone should strive to effect change in whatever situation/country they find themselves in. The U.S. has a lot of good things about it, but it also has a lot of terrible things about it, and a lot of people attempting to make things worse here for a lot of people as well. To affect those things, you start with dialogue (what were doing here) attempting to break down the source of the problem, and then come up with ways or work to enact change from the ground up when it comes to those things.

  What we're seeing now is a public consciousness shift on how various things about police departments should change to mean that less people get screwed over (which seem to be disproportionately poor and minority). This is increasing because the voices that were ignored in the 70s through 90s are finally being heard a little bit thanks to the advent of video being everywhere and more activism about those and related subjects.

  Just "voting" doesn't solve the issue because things like zoning and gerrymandering makes voting pointless for large swaths of people. Other types of activism would be necessary to create change.
• 

  Simon

  Maybe in the US, in the UK they cannot unless they suspect you of a crime and have good reason (that they can back up) to do so.

  Most countries they can stop you randomly. They often have road checks here in Canada where they stop everyone regardless of whether you are driving erratically.

  I happily give up my right to *not* be stopped in exchange for the chance of them catching possibly drunk drivers who could threaten me and my family.

  It's all part of the social contract.

  The trouble is, people are confusing legitimate civil disobedience for day to day unlawfulness and non-cooperation with the police. There are times when it is right to disobey the law but this isn't it. People are getting things confused.
• 

  Simon

  Cops murdering people on a weekly basis???? .....i just cant. Im going to slowly back away from the insanity. Maybe get something productive done instead of arguing on the internet.

  Yeah, I think people are starting to believe their own hyperbole.
• 

  Simon

  People now seem to be blaming socio-economic injustice on either race or the police or both. I think it's more todo with wealth and inequality and people get confused because sometimes these overlap with race and then they see race as the cause.

  The police are the people who mop up after everything else has failed. They are not social workers or councillors. Yes, there are some outstanding police who take on those roles but it shouldn't be relied on and many time society passes the problem down the line until it ends up at the police door to sort out..

  Most of the time it's too late at that point - the damage has been done and the opportunities for a good outcome long gone. They are mostly charged with ensuring public safety and law and order. We need to fix the social problems earlier and by doing that it will also improve policing with more community support.

  Right now it is an "us vs them" situation rather than just "us". People in some communities sadly need to be protected from their own members. What are the police to do if people are not willing to cooperate to make the community better? Strong words? Will that be the next thing? "look, the cop shouted STOP really loudly and startled me, I think I need some compensation".

  Finally, people always ignore the fact that if your society has free access to guns then the policing of that society is always going to be one bad call away from someone being shot. That is why people have a greater responsibility not to act like idiots or cause an officer to draw his weapon for any reason.

  Is it really a lot to ask for someone to simply move along if asked by a police officer?
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  Like you said, luck is what allowed me to actually get to the age where I could get out of a bad situation. The arrogance of anyone to suggest that everyone in the ghetto is there because of their own desire or bad decisions is ridiculous.

  It is utterly ridiculous to think any individual wants to live in what we term a ghetto. This is why in usage the very term "ghetto" has taken on a connotation of somewhere no one wants to live. Sometimes luck alone gets a person out of a bad situation (think: hitting a mega-lottery jackpot). But most of the time working hard and working smart is what gets it done, though even in this case being at the right place at the right time can make a big difference.

  I have lots of interaction with individuals who live in desperately poor neighborhoods. It's common to find lots of very bad decisions being made, like spending money at nightclubs, lots of fast food and lottery tickets when the family/individual does not have the money to afford these things. This is where I come from, and it's where I go to help. I also see lots and lots of bad parenting. I see children taught to stand up for rights at the wrong time (and, yes, from a parent's perspective there are wrong times for children to stand up for rights that belong to them). I could go on and on.

  And then we have videos like the McKinney pool party video. And what do we do? We stomp on perceived misbehavior on the part of a law enforcement officer and neglect the utter stupidity and disregard for authority that is staring us right in the face on the part of some of those teenagers and thereby send a signal to those teenagers that the behavior is justifiable. This does not help our children; it cripples them!
• 

  paulmolark

  Cops murdering people on a weekly basis????
  

  "The number of people killed by police in the United States during 2015 reached 500 on Wednesday, according to a Guardian investigation, after two young black men were shot dead in New York City and Cincinnati."

  
  

  People being killed every week by police
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  Just "voting" doesn't solve the issue because things like zoning and gerrymandering makes voting pointless for large swaths of people. Other types of activism would be necessary to create change.

  I don't disagree with that. I'm also a firm believer in civil disobedience, and civil disobedience does not include refusing to follow reasonable instructions from law enforcement sent to a situation they did not initiate and whose duty it is to restore order and public safety in the face of a large gathering with reports of violence like the McKinney pool party incident.

  Edited to add: My advice was/is not to "just vote". My advice also included working hard and working smart. Planned civil disobedience is, in my view, party to working hard and working smart.
• 

  Simon

  It's common to find lots of very bad decisions being made

  One thing that struck me on a program about Baltimore recently was how many people spent their time on utterly useless activities like playing basketball.

  Sure, some people might make it to become NBA stars or have a career with the Harlem Globetrotters but it's a pipe dream for the majority.

  Does no one think to learn a genuinely useful skill instead? All that time, all that potential ... wasted throwing a ball around.

  That's before you get to the genuinely dumb decisions where people make incredibly bad life choices. Often the choices we make dictate our life outcomes, not where we start out from. Sure, everything has an effect and can make things difficult. It's unlikely you'll be going to an ivy school university if you start in some communities but that was a reality for many of us.

  The important thing is to make the best of what you have and sadly many don't.

  So many people seem to care too little about important rights (e.g. voting) but want to make an issue of things that aren't as important. I see people being manipulated and played by politicians and those with ambition for office so many times and it's sad to see them fall for it over and over and over.

  I agree totally that pointing the finger of blame one way does the kids no good in the long run. They need to be told that "no, YOU were in the wrong - you caused this to happen".

  Life isn't 100% correct and with guarantees. Things can and will go wrong anytime especially when people are part of the system. The more you do to push on the safety rail the more chance there is of a bolt snapping and you plunging to your death. Better to tell kids to recognize the rail and why it's there than look for weak bolts to test out.
• 

  Simon

  Cops murdering people on a weekly basis????
  

  "The number of people killed by police in the United States during 2015 reached 500 on Wednesday, according to a Guardian investigation, after two young black men were shot dead in New York City and Cincinnati."

  People being killed every week by police

  So your original claim of "murder" suggests unlawful killing. You then switch the statistic to the number shot by police while performing their duties, the overwhelming majority of which will be justified. Some will be due to stupidity by someone. Some will be accidental and a small tiny minority will possibly be actual murder.

  They are two completely different things and you can't take an overall statistic to prove your claim. Unless your equally happy for people to take crime statistics for other groups as proof of something ...
• 

  paulmolark

  1. I didn't originally make the claim.

  2. I didn't switch anything.

  3. 25 weeks into the. If 25 of those killed were done so unlawfully then that would make the person who made the statement correct.

  4. You are acting like you know what the percentages are but you do not.

  5. You can take any statistics you want.