Norwegians Harm Whales

by Magog 51 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  JanH

  True, Norway wants to hunt a few species of whale that are so abundant you would be hard pressed not to bump into a few (literally!) if you crossed the North Atlantic in e.g. a saling boat. The scientific committee of the International Whaling Committee has been recommending hunting for years, but alas, fanatical environmentalists like Greenpeace have been paying nations which never saw a whale -- including some which are landlocked -- to vote to retain the ban.

  Why shouldn't we hunt whales? What's the ethical difference between eating chicken or pig and eating whale? That whales are "cute"?

  Ironically, the US hunts and kills more whales than Norway, but this is done by "traditional" people in Alaska, and then it's no longer wrong. Go figure.

  - Jan

  Edited by - JanH on 2 July 2002 3:41:7
• 

  TheOldHippie

  Don't need a sailing boat, either. Last year, we were fishing from a very small outboard motor-boat some few hundred metres off the coast of North-Western Norway, and then a flock of some 10 of these whales came down the strait where we were. As JanH said, and I think this is the second time in history I have to agree with him on anything, if we were to exagerate a bit, you cannot miss seeing them if you manage to lift your eyes above the beer-glass and look out at the open sea.
• 

  Gopher

  Part of the problem is how the issue is being reported to the outside world by news agencies like Reuters.

  Oslo said it would issue an export licence to a whaling company in the next few days to send 10-15 tons of minke whale meat to the North Atlantic island, although whales are on an international list of endangered species.

  After reading what Jan and Old HIppie wrote, it is very apparent that the last statement "whales are ... endangered" is out of context, or intentionally meant to inflame an international audience.

  It's like saying "birds are endangered" when in reality only certain species of birds are in danger. Since "birds are endangered", well there goes the tradition of eating turkey at Thanksgiving, LOL!

  Thanks for the background to the Europeans who posted here.
• 

  JanH

  Gopher,

  It's like saying "birds are endangered" when in reality only certain species of birds are in danger.

  Bingo. There is no such species as whale. Whale is a whole order of species, comprising two living sub-orders each with families, genera and individual species.

  • Suborder Mysticeti (baleen whales): 4 families, 6 genera, and 11 species
  • Suborder Odontoceti (toothed whales): 9 families, 34 genera, and 68 species

  So it's pretty meaningless to say that "whales are endangered". A few of those species are endangered, but not the ones Norway, Iceland and Japan wants to hunt.

  To illustrate how diverse species within an order is, I can explain that we belong to the order primates, which includes not only gorillas and chimps, but also lemurs, old world and new world monkeys.

  Humans have certainly been overly eager in hunting whales, and Norway played no small part in that industry, but it is worth noting that contrary to popular beliefs, no whale species has ever been hunted to extinction.

  - Jan

  Edited by - JanH on 2 July 2002 6:8:10
• 

  Magog

  Those who defend Norwegians and Norway, thank you. You help make the point. Those who saw this as a "turn-about is fair play," thank you too. You got the point.

  The Reuters article was published June 21. The media will say anything about any nation at any time. Non-Americans can now begin to see how self-righteous and arrogant some have been in so easily judging the USA. The USA is grossly misunderstood by many non-Americans. When Americans see your ignorant and assinine statements that judge over 280 million people and its government - it must seem quite revolting to them. When sme make such stereotypical bigoted comments against the USA, it speaks volumes as to their level of education and intelligence, or more precisely their lack thereof.

  Edited by - Magog on 2 July 2002 9:46:17
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  JanH

  Such stereotypical bigoted comments against the USA speaks volumes as to your level of education and intelligence, or more precisely your lack thereof.

  So you stereotyped ignorant americans to make a point about, eh, what exactly? That you are ignorant and uneducated? Sheesh, we didn't know that!

  Quite a few Americans on this board is pretty much beyond being stereotyped. Of course, I know there are also many Americans who cringe at the extreme display of nationalism by many americans here, so generalizations always tend to hurt some. But a nation is represented by its most vocal supporters, for good and bad.

  - Jan
• 

  Magog

  You missed my edited comments Jan. If the shoe fits, however, then wear it. The point is not that criticism of the Americans is not deserved at times, but the arrogance and self-righteousness with which is it given that makes the point. Likewise, it is interesting to see how non-Americans react when the shoe is on the other foot. Why can't you simply concede it is possible that much of the criticism of the Americans is unjustly and wrongly meted out.
• 

  JanH

  Likewise, it is interesting to see how non-Americans react when the shoe is on the other foot.

  Yes, by posting arguments and facts instead of hysterical patriotic nonsense.

  Heck, you should try it one day. Perhaps you will discover that people take you a bit more seriously.

  - Jan
• 

  Magog

  Jan,

  Yes, by posting arguments and facts instead of hysterical patriotic nonsense. Heck, you should try it one day. Perhaps you will discover that people take you a bit more seriously.

  Nothing was hysterical or patriotic about my post. I used a plain fact and illustrated a point with parody. Whether people take me seriously is not at issue. It now seems important to you to attempt to discredit me when you cannot think of a good defense. The point about fair play is a point you seem to be deliberately ignoring, or incapable of inderstanding. Only when I made a point of criticism about Norway do you begin to make your argument personal rather than stick to facts and issues.

  While you make many good posts and arguments, you also seem very uncomfortable admitting error, and stepping back to acknowledge a more moderate position. Just an observation.

  Edited by - Magog on 2 July 2002 10:16:4
• 

  JanH

  magog,

  I did not respond by personal attacks. You did, and you still do. Obviously you are more comfortable attacking critics as uneducated and unintelligent (which hurts so much coming from a yank ) instead of dealing with the actual arguments that I and others posted.

  Has it occurred to you that is what is giving many Americans a very bad name?

  - Jan