Who are these guys?

by Nowhere 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  ballistic

  Well, just to say you will now get one or two long winded and meaning-less emails from one or two witnesses who do lurk here (and hence the topic of this thread) and also to tell you that your bible study conductors will not be impressed if you show them this site. In fact, they will say we are "of the Devil" and will actually use our existence as proof that they are the true religion. i.e. they will quote scriptures which say they will be persecuted and hated by the world.

  Their disfellowshipping policies have, in effect, created a self-fullfilling prophecy.
• 

  dungbeetle

  What gets me is the lying at the doors.

  Let's look at the Watchtower's website. "Do you shun former members?"

  The answer is yes and everyone knows it is yes, it has been publicly documented since at least 1957, actually since the days of Maria Russell in 1906 and Olin Moyle (forget the date).

  But here what Watchtower say:

  "Those who simply cease to practice the faith are not shunned". These are not former members. they did not answer the question. (Paraphrased) "Some individuals are disfellowshiped who practice willfil unrepentant sin." That doesn't anwer the question either. "Disfellwoshiping does not sever family ties." That doesn't anwer the question either.

  That's up there for all the world to see. Can you imagine what JW's are doing at the doors and privately in Bible studies?

  See my post on the Draffenville elders. If they are willing to do this IN PUBLIC before THE PRESS to rape and molestaion survivors then what must they be doing IN PRIVATE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS?

  Just a thought.
• 

  Nowhere

  well, one guy responded, and he seams to be a nice guy, no bible qoutes, no moral talk, no talking about devil and deamons on JWD. So we agreed that I can ask him all the questions that I don't have the guts bringing up with the people I'm studying with here. And I do think that I can sort out right from wrong. I just want to hear both sides before making a discision.

  And I don't think my bible study conductors would have a hart attack if he knew of it. He had no problem with me wanting to read Ray Franz book, CoC, when I started studying with him.
• 

  ballistic

  I'm pleasantly suprised at the reaction to C of C. In my days of pioneering I would not have been so leanient. I made my bible study throw all his books on demonology away and many witnesses consider so called "apostate" literature equal to such.

  Crisis of Conscience is a good book, but you need a fairly good understanding of the organisation to make the full sense of it. It is not primarily about doctrine but about the organisation itself.

  You talk about having to make a decision. I just want to say that God does not make decisions about who lives and who is destroyed on the basis of what religions you may happen to have stumbled across. People like 'You Know' who predict the end is imminent fail to mention that most of the World have not heard of Jehovah's Witnesses. There are a mere 6 million Witnesses and 6.25 billion people and while the witnesses proudly quote the number of countries they are present in, fail to mention those they are not or those which have a miniscule prescence. This is just another case of 'the house of cards' as above.

  JW: "as we can see from the current crisis, the end is imminent"

  B: "so what of the billions who haven't heard the message"

  JW: "oh, God can just read their heart condition in those cases"

  B: "so why can't God read every one's heart condition?"

  JW: "because the bible says that Jehovah's name must be made known in all the nations"

  B: "well it's not is it?"
• 

  Nowhere

  ballistic:

  "I just want to say that God does not make decisions about who lives and who is destroyed on the basis of what religions you may happen to have stumbled across."

  I agree with you, I do not think God will kill a person just becouse he has a differnt religion or don't want to be a witness. I do not want to be a wtiness just becouse I think it's the only why to be saved, but I do like that they (not the GB) tries to stick to the bible.

  People like 'You Know' who predict the end is imminent fail to mention that most of the World have not heard of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  First, I do not for one second think that You Know is a witness. If he is, then I don't wan't to be a JW.

  And second, people have since beginning of time proclaimed that the end is near. It will allways be "near".

  And I do believe God can read the hearts of people. But if I decide not to become a witness, and God kills me for that, I don't care, I wouldn't want to live under someone who kills people for that.
• 

  COMF

  I do like that they (not the GB) tries to stick to the bible.

  Good point. They do that, too... everywhere except in the places where they don't.

  For example: it has been their policy for many years, that beards are unacceptable. They can't disfellowship a man for having a beard, but they won't let him be an elder or a ministerial servant, or even work the microphones in the Watchtower meeting. What's the scriptural basis for that, reckon?

  I don't know, but I assume this is still the case. It was very much so when I was in, circa 1987. If beards are okay now, I'd be curious to know what the scriptural basis for it was back then, and how the scriptures changed so that now it's okay. You might ask your teacher guy about that.
• 

  Nowhere

  I already did. Beard was a symbol for being either a communist or gay. Witnesses do not want to be associated with those. But it wasn't the guy I'm studying with who said that, he is a nice guy.
• 

  AlanF

  Nowhere, you're on dangerous ground studying with the JWs. Unless you're extremely careful they'll suck you in and suck out your mind.

  Do yourself a big favor. Find out why the JW organization tells so many lies and refuses to correct them. What lies? You can read about a small portion of them at this link: http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm . After reading some of the material, if you can convince yourself that the JW organization is honest and truly Christian, then you deserve to be a JW. Otherwise you should run like hell.

  AlanF

  Edited by - AlanF on 15 June 2002 15:57:32

  Edited by - AlanF on 15 June 2002 15:58:12
• 

  Nowhere

  why the JW organization tells so many lies and refuses to correct them.

  Becouse they want to keep their members. I know that there are a lot of lies, but I do not think that the ordnary witness knows that. They honestly belive it, and I think that many of them are good people. I enjoy the Bible study, and if being a witness requires that you have to believe stuff like Christ's return in 1914, and that 144k is not symbolical, then I simply will thank them for the free Bible and leave.

  But that is not the main issue of mine, I think that they have the wrong impression of God. I believe that the thing who created the whole universe is so mush bigger and more powerful than any witness can imagine. It's wrong when they try to explain how God thinks or how his mind is. No one can ever imagine that.
• 

  ballistic

  Nowhere, I totally agree that there are many, many good hearted Witnesses and that they trully believe what they say. After all, I was one for most of my life. I don't think anyone here would tell you otherwise. I could spend a night with you telling you great stories about great people and funny stories of my days pioneering with them.

  But what Alan F says about the danger is too true. There are things you cannot see from the inside looking out. It is scary. What we are takling about is the difference between going to a church and joining a cult.

  Edited by - ballistic on 15 June 2002 16:29:36