Elders- "Trained or UnTrained- WHICH IS IT??

by JT 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • JT

    The Biggest error wt has continued to make for the last 120yrs is they Leave a wonderful Paper Trail behind - where a serious student of Study will have no problem following and seeing that so many of their Lofty claims simply don't fly

    Case in point - Are the Elders trained or untrained clergymen as it were?

    Well for those of you who have never served as an Elder allow me to share with you what Elders are told about their training

    Any current elder or former elder if honest will back me up

    When we would go to the Elder School/ 15-hour Refresher course/ meeting with the DO and CO at the Circuit assembly/ and when the CO would come to visit- we are constantly being told

    "Brothers you are receiving the FINEST TRAINING on the face of the earth"

    "Due to the FACT that we are living in the last days the training that Jah is proving through the Slave equips you bros. for EVERY GOOD WORK"

    SO we are made to feel that we are being trained at the feet of Christ Bros. NOW WHO COULD GET ANY BETTER TRAINING

    So you know then our training far exceeds the training that some Dude got who has a Ph.D. in Divinity-- Rev Neckbone and Chickenfoot

    "If you are black you will get the inside joke" sorry bout that my white bros.


    Anyway--so the elders are always being held up as being far better in our training due to the Slave than any other faith on the earth--

    But then all of a sudden when wt is questioned about the men who they have in Leadership roles notice how they try and downplay the training that they have received through the mouth PC of God Himself

    ######Paducah Sun 1-28-01

    Mario Moreno, associate general counsel at the church's New York headquarters...

    J.R. Brown, public affairs director for the church,....

    Both Brown and Moreno said that the elders, who volunteer and are essentially untrained clergy


    Now are they saying that with that fine textbook known as the Flockbook and 100s of meetings/seminaries and 100's of "Technical Support Bulletins" AKA "LETTERS TO THE BODY" --that elders get monthly these men are merely untrained CLERGY - are they saying that
    Despite living so close to the End of the world that the Greatest god in the Universe has chosen to lead not only million folks but billions with UNTRAINED MEN????????

    Now let's kick this around while we are at it

    What purpose then does a $30-50 million dollar TRAINING CENTER KNOWN AS THE "WT EDUCATION CENTER" IN PATTERSON SERVE THEN?

    Are THEY telling the World that

    "Yes we built at $50Million Education Center, but we have not trained any of the local elders there so that they will not be both Volunteers and UNTRAINED-

    As the WT is constantly being force to address the public we see they have along ways to go-

    Do you recall that point on the school where we were told not to use phrases that your audience might not understand well I have to give old JR Brown a "W" on that point:

    These guys are so out of touch with the outside world notice what he calls the Authorities:

    "If Caesar has a law"

    Can you imagine folks reading the paper in the AM and see that jw think that they are living in the time of Rome with old Julius-

    Who in the He!! Refers to the cops and the District attorney as "Caesar"


    Just my 2



    ONCE AGAIN WE see how the Org will Hang the avg Rank and File out to Dry
    how sad

  • DannyBear

    JT you man,

    Couldn't resist that 'you cool man' or should it be 'you cold man' now made famous accross cyberspace 'apostate' meetings. Iam sure the boys in writing also pay attention, when they see those words.

    Training, what a joke...I can remember one of those special seminars, conducted by a particualarly stern, egocentric, unbending DO at the time (Bryant). What a self important, pompous, power weilder this guy was. He conducted this meeting like it was boot camp. Demanding compliance on every little detail...lunch was litteraly pick up your fork like this brothers..never let me hear you doing this or that. We had brothers after this 'special training' say that if they had to endure any more of it, they would have walked out on the guy. I don't know where this egomaniac ended up....but I sure pity anyone who had to deal with him.

    Training....I must admit for once the legal eagles are telling the truth....maybe someone should suggest that the WT is required reading in that Dept as well?


  • Scorpion


    Good points! I enjoy your posts.

  • thinkers wife
    thinkers wife

    Ever since my ex left me and the elders bungled the "help" they gave me this has been a big issue with me. These men who claim to be appointed by holy spirit and are God's mouth peice on earth are making a mess of things.
    What a collosal mistake to tell an abused woman (or man for that matter) to stay with their mate. What? do they want you to stay until he kills you? And then to top it all off, they torture anyone who breaks out of the mold and has the backbone to get out.
    IMO, if you don't have any idea of the issue, you should just say so instead of faking it and screwing things up worse. Don't make claims you can't fulfill. These people are so ill equipped to handle child abuse and molestation and serious abuse cases. And still they go on trying. It is sickening to me. I wonder how many people have suffered greatly because of their bungling?
    Oh well, I could go on and on, but everyone gets the point.
    They need to stop messing with things they know nothing about and allow individuals to make decisions about their own well being. And encourage professional help. Instead of continuing to ruin peoples lives.

  • deludednomore

    JT: You are exactly right. Most of the information the CO covered on his visits shouldn't even be considered "training". He simply read a portion of the Pay Attention book and asked very basic questions. The elders then repeated back the written answer.
    I used to laugh at the educational training of the clergy of other religions. But, shouldn't the one you look to for spiritual guidance have the best possible spiritual training.

  • mommy

    JT great post!
    There was a poster here and for the life of me I can't remember his name. He lived in a third world country, and was an elder at the tender age of 16! He had told us that someone came to him for advice on sex, and he had to turn them away because he was still a virgin.

  • Welshman

    Hi Guys,
    Thinker's wife,the WTS have been screwing up for 120 years,they have an unenviable record in screwing up or getting things plain wrong.They pretend that they know,talk some bs and then count the cost and blame ''Jehovah's people''(tm).
    I remember those special seminars where we were told that we were receiving the best training,much better than Christendom's,and now true to form the WT's lawyers say that the elders are essentially untrained hicks who are foolish amateurs with their hearts in the right place but they certainly don't make the WT liable because we haven't trained them.SURE.....
    In my job I have quite a low opinion of solicitors/lawyers,so you can imagine what I think of a WT lawyer by the name of Moreno.

    Regards Welshman (We will make them pay class)

    Edited by - Welshman on 26 February 2001 12:54:59

  • DriveslikeJehu

    The elders are trained locally, not at the Patterson facility(the '$50 million WT Education Center'). It's called MTS, or Ministerial Training School. Ministerial servants that are age 23 and older may attend as well.

  • Moridin

    My father was an elder for quite some time and he never really felt comfortable with the "training" he recieved. He mentioned that the congregation he was appointed in had two sisters running the elders. They were deathly afraid of them and they constantly counseled the elders! On my father's appointment he gave a very strong talk on some subject...sorry wasn't paying attention so can't remember what it was on...and the sisters cornered him after the meeting to counsel him on being too outspoken. He hauled them into the backroom and disciplined them. The other elders were shocked...but they finally got some b***s. That was a bad thing as it turned out. My father said that a lot of the judicial decisions were made from the heart and not from prayer or thinking. There were two feuds that separated the congregation into two factions and there was a lot of infighting among the elders. The "training" they recieved went in one ear and out the other. I thank God they were a spiritually weak congregation because they were the reason I started to question the org.

  • ozziepost

    Agree with that, JT. I came to this conclusion after 3+ decades as an elder. In recent times I have spoken with clergy and theologians about their faith and understanding of what it means to be Christian. I have found them kindly, humble and above all devout. In fact, quite the opposite of what I had been led to believe by the WTs and which I spoke of from the KH platform. Their knowledge of the Bible I have found to be most impressive, putting my peers and I into the shade. To think that I used to encourage my group in field service by saying that we (they) had so much more knowledge than any who went to church! I now see that that is **********!

    Thinkers wife: exactly! The average elder is an unschooled tradesman. Nothing wrong with that, but the WTS makes a virtue of their ignorance "unschooled and ordinary". The result time after time is a mess making their enforced intervention more harmful than helpful. In many cases they are downright dangerous. Couples are split, families are split etc And everyone is too scared to do what they think is right for fear of retribution from the elders. Families can't react in a "normal" way in a crisis. They can't take it to Jehovah in prayer and act on it with the operation of the Holy Spirit in their lives, because they have to do whatever the elders decide (advise). Even if the elders are doing it with a good heart they still make a mess. This crazy world is now being exposed but how many (or few) will be saved from it? I just hope my grandchildren don't have to suffer for our misled zeal.

    Ozzie (of the unfortunate untrained class)

Share this