by TheMatrix 38 Replies latest jw friends
matrix,
once again you pull a great argument technique for the foundationally challenged. Ask a very general question so that you can say WRONG ANSWER and then give a very specific "right answer." Again the issue is the morality of reporting the child abuse to the authorities, an issue which you have yet to address...
BTW, great photo for such a learned Witness. Love the gun.
No, Outlaw, it's not as easy as you think.
Elders are spiritual leaders. Yes, I agree, they must follow the law, that's why they contact the Legal Department when a minor is involved. The Society does not leave it up to their judgement to do what they think is right. No, they clear instructions to contact Legal immediately.
The laws are very different from state to state, as my example showed, Texas is one of the toughest states regarding child abuse. The Legal Department is an excelent resource for elders.
Once these laws are followed, now it is the elders job to help the victim spiritually.
I asked myself, what would I have done if Erica (from the Dateline show) would have come to me as an elder. These are the steps that I would have followed:
1. I would have hugged her.
2. I would pray with her so that Jehovah can give her peace of mind.
3. I would contact the congregation where the abuser attends, so that they can take care of it judicially.
4. I would have called the police on the abuser with her.
5. I would have also recommended that she speak to a professional to discuss how the abuse has affected her psychologically.
6. I would have organized regular shepherding visits for her and her family to comfort them and pray with them.
And here is what TheMatrix would have done had it been a non-reporting state...
1. I would have hugged her.
2. I would pray with her so that Jehovah can give her peace of mind.
3. I would contact the congregation where the abuser attends, so that they can take care of it judicially. (The other congregation would probably not do anything about it either because the incident happened in the past and the brother is trying to change for the better and it's best to let things be, that is, if he even admits to committing the crime).
4. I would have organized regular shepherding visits for her and her family to comfort them and pray with them.
Your #5 is highly specious. Every witness (including elders) I have ever talked to say "We don't need therapists or psychologists, we have God's word to help us through the tough times!"
By the way Matrix, you forgot to warn the girl not to tell anyone else in the congregation about that incident and to leave it in Jehovahs hands because he would take care of it in his own due time.
Hi Matrix, you say that after the fact and I don't believe you would have done all those things. You would have done just what the other elders did. You could not help but do otherwise as you would have been so indoctrinated by the watchtower that your only reasoning would have been to protect the organization at all costs.
You would have told Erica to please keep quite about this, not to tell the police and to "wait on Jehovah." As an elder, you first loyalty would have been to the society.
OK-here's what I would do:
I'd ask the parents if they were OUT OF THEIR MINDS wasting their time talking to me when they should be-
1. Talking to the police, or if they'd done that,
2. Making an emergency appointment with a family counselor
Suppose that's why I was never asked to serve as an elder...either my bad attitude---or, maybe--my gender...
By the way, if you:
>>>4. I would have called the police on the abuser with her.
5. I would have also recommended that she speak to a professional to discuss how the abuse has affected her psychologically.<<<
You would have:
6. Been counseled by the other elders for not allowing Jehovah's Society to handle the situation.
7. Been removed as an elder.
You are an elder, what would you do?
#######
I hate to take the wind out of your sail for while your question is a good one --the problem is this concept found in wt called an elder.
wt being that it really is no more than a publishing house much like Time or Newsweek has put men in a position where they have no business and as can be seen over and over again, not just in child molestation issues but so many others areas, medicine, career,investment, family planning and the list goes on and on where these men are placed in a position and the rank and file are required to respect and listen to them and they dish out advice on tons of subjects all under the guise of somehow being god directed or "Appointed"
most men who serve in this "Life impacting role" called elder are rarely ttrained beyond repeating what is in the wt publications, i can say that because i was a "Society Man" i was trained by two of the best when i was at bethel.
RP Johnson and JR Brown, they were both my mentors
i was taught:
1; Love the friends
2. Learn Organizational Procedures like the back of your hand
and i did
when i left bethel as a MS these two guys had help me put together 2 3 ring binders of sheparding material, in fact since both of them were former DO and one worked in Writing and the other in Service
they shared as much as they could and xeroxed as much as they could give me as a MS. my reference material was as good or if not better organized than what many CO's have
i could quote you page and paragraph
any good Society Man's favorite phase is :
WHAT DOES THE SOCIETY SAY IN PRINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHEN I LEFt Bethel i settled in a congo here in washington dc with 4 former bethelites who were elders in less than 2 yrs i was appointed at 27, on the district and 29 and worked regularly starting at 30 in the chairman's office at the district. i was a "READER" as we used to call it- a few weeks ago someone asked about bro giving talks and someone following allow with the manuscript while they were on stage
well i used to do that and at the end of the talk the bro had to come up into the skybox- yes we had AC while the rest of the rank and file sat in the sun- o by they way we used to have MS who was RUNNER he went down to get food and drinks for us and our wives in the skybox
while others couldn't get up to get a drink of water almost we sat up in the skybox and eat and drink and our wives never stood in line to "P" cause we had our own private toiletp there.
i say all of that to say if anyone was in tuned with Org procedures i was along with so many other Society Men- i did nothing, made no decision, gave no advice unless i could back it up IN PRINT OR HAD WT DIRECTIVES,
AND YET I REALIZE that I had no business dishing out advice on issues i really knew nothing about beyond what i was parrotting out of brooklyn.
in my exp some elders serve for glory but for the ones i surrounded myself with it was out of a sincere belief that somehow GOD HAD APPOINTED US
When the org compares you to moses and paul that gives you a false sense of worth.
as an elder and for the rank and file the view is this man is being Trained and directed by Jah thru his earthly mouth pc
in fact when they tell you as an elder that you are "fully equiped for every good work" you start to believe it applies to every aspect of life that an elder is called on to address
looking back now it reminds me of the hotel commericail that runs on tv
some dude is in a Nuclear Reactor and he tells the techs to do this and do that and then they ask Are you a Nuclear Engineer and he says NO BUT I SLEPT AT A HOLIDAY INN...
MY POINT being elders are built up to HIGH HEAVEN -- as long as the wt wants persons like you and i and others to do what they say, but the the minute Sh*t hits the fan the run like dog with his tail between their legs
this comment by my MENTOR JR BROWN SUMS IT UP NICELY
where he is quoted in the paper saying
"Elders are like unpaid clergy and they are untrained volunteers"
so much for that being fully equiped jive
so the problem is very simple- it is not the men per say it is
THE WT SYSTEM
The watchtower legal department does not represent the law. They are a legal triage unit.
ashi
You might rethink that "hugging" thing in this case, Matrix. Contrary to your no doubt inflated idea of yourself, you are not Jesus gathering chicks under his wings, and your touch won't always make all the hurt go away. It might get you a rather negative reaction in a case like this however.
I would pray with her so that Jehovah can give her peace of mind.Ah, yes, Jehovah doesn't do a thing till TheMatrix (or some dumbass elder) steps in to intercede, eh? Fucking egomaniacal morons. Every damn one of them, even the nice ones. Even the ones who care.
Elders generally are unqualified as spiritual leaders. They don't study anything but the WT, and that just won't cut it. Worse, their study of the WT, coupled with a few one or two day seminars a year, makes them think they are "spiritually mature" people.
How absurd is that, Matrix?
Hey Matrix,..Again,WRONG ANSWER!!..Are you stuck on stupid?!It is not the right of WBTS to decide on legal matters,it is the right of the legal authorities in that area.No one gives a shit what you would do Troll!You would call WBTS and they`d bury it.You are a scumbag pediphile protecting Troll!You deserve to be executed along with the pediphiles you protect...OUTLAW
Matrix,
You better watch out what you are saying, Bill Bowen is facing disfellowshipping for doing exactly as you said you would do. Barbara Anderson IS disfellowshipped for doing it. It is very easy for you to show up on this site and say what you "would have done." Saying and doing is two very different things.
If you are trying to put the JW organization in a good light on this forum you are wasting your time. We all know the truth about the JW religion and have done something about it. I left the religion after being flown back to Bethel as a consultant. I couldn't believe the hypocrisy and lying. I was a JW my whole life and unlike you, I could no longer lie to myself about what I saw and what I knew. This warn out excuse that the elders are imperfect humans is a crock. The ones who are truly honest and love god see the corruption and get out as opposed to trying to make excuses and rationalizations.
Just as the great majority of JW's, you do not have a clue what your religion does behind close doors. Your perspective on what and who they are has been altered by you "hope" that they are the true religion. The JW's are as wrong and are as bad as all the rest of religion. Just as Nietzsche said "the christian resolve to see the world as ugly and evil has made the world ugly and evil.
It's all a big controlling game, and you are simply one of the expendable pons.
Dave
