Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism 88 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Village Idiot

  * "The Society finds crazy Types and Antitypes in everything, where it doesn't exist. Way too many deep layers of nonsense being taught."

  There are many other crazies in their theology.

  * (After the New Light): "The Society is way too simplistic and dumbed down. What happened to the deep study?"

  That's true. Should we apologize for bringing that up?

  And when they recently have admitted to errors and say they've been wrong in big ways in the past, some accuse them of having some secret conspiracy theory motive behind it.

  It is mock humility which they see themselves forced to admit probably because they've been getting a deluge of negative letters from the rank and file on the subject. Take a look at what they haven't admitted.

  To the people with this attitude: What exactly is it that you WANT the Society to do?

  Die.
• 

  Bonsai

  To the people with this attitude: What exactly is it that you WANT the Society to do?

  If they really are the only spiritual leaders that are enjoying god's blessing and backing, if they really are the appointed faithful and discreet slave class, then I think it would behoove them to show genuine humility and honesty with their sheep. I'd like them to have a press conference to a worldwide audience admitting their mistakes and the mistakes of previous administrations. I'd like them to acknowledge the hurt they've caused. I'd like them to own up to becoming a U.N. NGO. I'd like them to admit their policies handling the sex abuse cases were lacking. I'd like them to take off their pinky rings, roll off their rolexes, stop living in their ivory towers, stop building plush, posh multi-million dollar headquarters. Oh, and I'd like them to go out into the real world and get a job!

  Jesus was a carpenter. Paul was a tent maker. Peter was a fisherman. Luke was a physician. What work do the GB do to sustain themselves? I know, they go on broadcasts asking for your hard earned money and for your kid's ice cream money. SMH

  I'd like an open press conference once a month where they publicly answer people's questions and give people access to why they changed a certain policy or came to a certain conclusion in regards to a new doctrine or light. I'd like financial transparency and over all accountability for...everything.

  If they do those things, then quite possibly I will once again feel proud to be a part of this organization.
  
• 

  Finkelstein

  FusionTheism says ...... an hour ago

  I see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful. I can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.

  If you condemn the Society for NOT changing, but then you also condemn them when they DO change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the Society to ever want to change for the better?

  Maybe its because of the realization that the organization can never change its most damaging doctrines like the blood issue for example, thousands have needlessly died from this doctrines and the No vaccination or organ transplant doctrine that went along with the blood doctrine. Or the fact that this organization was founded by amateur bible theologians who were personally rich and self endeavored to promote their own devised theology by publishing them into literature and then labeling themselves as doing God's work in preaching the gospel .

  What god wants of his true followers is to obey his commandants, such as staying clear of false prophets who come in his name and Jesus himself admonished anyone to set a time on God's own sacred time of his return and the creation of his Kingdom.

  JWS are just adherent and devoted subservient followers of apostates or identified false prophets, they are not in any way god's FDSL by virtue of what they speak and pronounce.
  
• 

  Magnum

  but then you also condemn them when they DO change in a positive way

  What evidence do you have that they've changed in a positive way? You keep mentioning (you've done it on at least one other thread) the type/antitype change as if it's a noble change that shows honesty and transparency. I don't think it is. I think all their changes are for strategic, selfish reasons. I think the org changed the type/antitype stuff to make the situation better for itself. It realizes that it can't defend many of its teachings so it's simplifying so it won't have to face challenges and questions it can't answer.

  I still condemn them for the dumbing down. They used to chastise us for not seeking the deeper stuff; now they say it's not necessary. The problem is that they lay claim to the one and only truth. The truth doesn't change. Their truth is whatever they say at a given point in time. JWs have to accept it or face the consequences of not accepting it. They're dumbing down for selfish reasons - because they realize they're just guessing and they can't defend themselves.

  For example:
  * "The Society finds crazy Types and Antitypes in everything, where it doesn't exist. Way too many deep layers of nonsense being taught."
  * (After the New Light): "The Society is way too simplistic and dumbed down. What happened to the deep study?"

  That's an illogical argument. You're comparing two different things. You make it seem as though one day we're chastising them for being too deep with their type/antitype teaching, and then the next day when they drop it, we chastise them for dropping it and being too simple. That is not the case.

  Your two bulleted points don't relate to each other.

  Yes, they're now backing off on the type/antitype stuff. We (I think most of us) are not condemning them for changing. We condemn them for the fact that they were wrong all those years and made us waste our precious time studying stuff that turned out to be bologne. And they would have DF'd us for disagreeing with it when it was still in vogue. We condemn them for another example of their wrongness when they've claimed to have the truth for decades.

  Yes, many of have condemned them for the general dumbing down - not slacking off on the type/antitype stuff as you indicate. I believe, as I indicate above, that their dumbing down is for selfish reasons. It's part of their rebranding, which itself is for selfish reasons.

  The fact that I might chastize one for making too much out of something simple (like the type/antitype stuff) doesn't mean he should then go and make everything simple. There are some things that are simple and some that are not. You confuse two unrelated points.
• 

  FusionTheism

  Heck, look what the Home Page of this website claims, and then look at the comments in this one thread!

  "We are not affiliated with the WTB&TS in anyway and we take your privacy and security veryseriously doing our utmost to protect your identity and provide a friendly, tolerant and informative environment"

  Doesn't exactly line up.

  Where is the "friendly and tolerant?"
• 

  Magnum

  What exactly is it that you WANT the Society to do?

  Wow! How much time do you have? I'll mention just a few things.

  1) Quit being deceptive in your publications. Quit misquoting and using propaganda techniques.

  2) Make all of JW history and older publications readily accessible and available for all JWs and any else who are interested, and encourage JWs to examine all of it. (NEVER HAPPEN)

  3) Quit being so concerned about money, real estate, etc. Be completely transparent with your finances. For example, let everybody know the huge profits you make on disaster relief.

  4) Quit requiring that everybody accept what seven men say.

  5) Allow JWs to think and question freely and, oh my god, even disagree.

  6) Stop all the wasteful busy work that keeps JWs from having time to really learn and better themselves.

  7) Allow JWs who no longer want to be such to cut ties without the shunning and breaking up of families and friendships.
• 

  Bonsai

  I feel I've been respectful to your thread. I've spent time and thought to answer your questions as best I can. I'm eagerly awaiting your feed back.
  
• 

  cappytan

  
  

  Where is the "friendly and tolerant?"

  
  so if someone doesn't agree with you that means they're unfriendly and intolerant?
  sigh
  
  
• 

  John Aquila

  What exactly is it that you WANT the Society to do?

  Just 1 thing!

  
• 

  Virran

  
  For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you measure, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:2

  The org is judging and condemning everything and everyone outside itself, so yea, the hammer will come down pretty hard on them. Is that really so odd?