Illegal immigrants in the organization?

by silent 46 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  stillin

  And yet one more step down this slippery slope:

  i run a business, construction related. i was was approached by the elders who asked me if I could hire two Latinos from the local Spanish-speaking congregation. I thought I could use them and began the process of documentation only to realize that they weren't legal and I would be jeopardizing my own self if I put them to work. When I explained this to the brothers they tried to pressure me into an "under-the-table" form of employment and guilt, as though I wasn't being spiritual if I didn't hire them.

  nice...
• 

  silent

  Well stillin - it appears corruption runs rampant. I wonder what would happen if those elders were turned in to the higher ups if anything would come of it. Certainly that would be a cause for stumbling and would be grounds to have those elders removed for wanting to get you to willingly violate Caeser's law. You sure could have a lot of fun with this...
• 

  silent

  Blondie: It appears then that according to this 1977 Watchtower article that they practice a don't ask don't tell policy as regards to illegal immigrants. It's a rather passive approach. The do differentiate between God's law and laws of the land. Evidently if it's God's law, it's uber important, but if it violates Caesar's law - even though God's Law at Rom. 13:1 outright says to be in subjection to the superior authorities - then it's not as important?

  It really is a double standard and what I'm finding out is that a lot of illegal immigrants are arrogant, have an entitlement mindset, and think they deserve to be in the county they are in. Sounds to me like they would make great elders after all.
• 

  Pistoff

  From silent:

  "Even if the organization believes God's laws are above man's, ie obeying God as ruler rather than men - Jehovah hasn't put anything in scripture concerning illegal immigration however, obeying the Superior Authorities - as preached by the organization - would dictate that they turn themselves in and be deported. If I had this in my congregation, I would push the issue"

  Wow, really? In a congregation?? I could see maybe if you thought your own job was threatened, but come on.

  Some feel, and I am one, that it is a churches job to shepherd and feed the flock, no matter if they are 'illegal' or not.

  It's a place of worship, not an enforcement zone!
• 

  stillin

  I tend to agree with Pistoff. If Immigration raids places of worship to gather up illegals, that's their business. If people get some measure of peace at their churches, what's the harm? But there truly is a double-standard about illegals. Of course, they are probably earning more (donating more) than they ever would have had they stayed where they came from. So there is incentive to leave them alone for any of the churches, including the Witnesses.
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  blondie

  silent, you do realize I am merely reporting what the WTS has said not supporting. Your answer to me seems to be educating me on the flaws...I know that already, it doesn't represent my personal opinion. Just address your comments to the WTS as the one saying and supporting the quote from WTS publications.
• 

  FatFreek 2005

  Pistoff: Some feel, and I am one, that it is a churches job to shepherd and feed the flock, no matter if they are 'illegal' or not. It's a place of worship, not an enforcement zone!

  Really? The problem with WT is that it has indeed set itself up as an enforcement zone -- kangaroo trials disguised as judicial comittee meetings to chastise its membership for smoking, fornication, breaking Caesar's laws (um ... except for illegal immigration), etc., etc.

  The enforcement zone of the local congregation is mirrored throughout the world in congregations which probably number close to 40,000 -- that zone is alive and well.

  With due respect, the Watchtower double-standard is a mirror of Paul's double standard. Recall he is the very one who wrote Romans 13 and the same one who gave counsel to that runaway slave.

  Repeating that earlier WT quote: " Take note that while Onesimus was in Rome the apostle Paul did not hand him over to the Roman authorities for punishment as a fugitive slave and possibly a thief. We know from his writings that Paul believed that a Christian should obey the law of the land, but plainly he did not consider it the congregation’s duty to serve as an arm of the government in policing individuals’ lives. "

  Is it possible the early Christian Congregation did not have an enforcement zone like the JWs do?
• 

  JWdaughter

  I thought it interesting that they spent so much time discussing the risks involved in being an illegal immigrant but didn't begin to touch on the fact tht they were BREAKING THE LAW other than they could be sent back. If you don't mind prostituting your women and risking their lives with criminal gangs. . . or being dishonest to the WORLDLY authorities, then I guess its all good.

  For most things, I certainly would not think that the WT is obligated to play policeman and I wouldn't in this situation either, but I do find it disconcerting that known lawbreakers would be considered good associations. They will expel you from the congregation for doing legal things, but can be totally accepted while living as an outlaw.

  What about nice American girls marrying illegal immigrants to give them status? Are there many green card marriages in Texas KH's?
• 

  prologos

  How do you pay taxes if you are hiding from the authorities?

  if you do not pay taxes, do not buy Health insurance, then you have more money than the "Natives" in similar jobs, and

  are a welcome recruiter, contributor for WT, that too - feeds happily inside the body of the nations that allow it.
• 

  silent

  The fact of the matter is that breaking the law is of interest to the elders and the congregation. You need to have a good report from the outside if you are to be a servant. Even if you're not a servant, how long do you think you'd be allowed to hang around, if as a baptized publisher you were involved in beating up your wife, domestic disputes, trespassing, pointing guns at people, speeding around town, causing mayhem and havoc? At the very least, you would be marked as bad association. And that would just be for some one-time violations - though serious. Illegals are breaking the law 24/7 so if obeying Caesar's law is a biblical mandate (which it is) then you are breaking one of God's laws when you break Caesar's laws as long as Ceaser's law doesn't break God's law.

  As far as one of the previous posters said about congregations in Tennesse not reporting anything to the police, then what do you think would happen if during the meeting, one of the congregation members went and rummaged through all the attending member's cars and stole stuff - going so far as "borrowing" their car and taking it for a joyride and returning it at the next meeting? Would this be handled internally or do you think then that maybe they'd be inclined to call the police? If they did, then they would in effect be saying that they won't be calling the police on wrongdoing unless it involves them personally. Basically, picking and choosing the level of infraction they want to report to the law and what they don't - therefore saying some wrongs are okay and other wrongs aren't - court of personal opinion - ultimate kangaroo court!

  I guess what this boils down to, if you're a habitual breaker of Caeser's law (ie illegal immigrants), are you still allowed to be in the congregation if you're a baptized witness?