16-year-old JW daughter doesn't want to visit, I have visitation rights

by BetterGuyNow 50 Replies latest members private

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  nugget

  This seems to be a decision that has been forced on her. In witness world at 16 she will be pressured to make the truth her own and make adult choices. However as far as the court is concerned she is not an adult she is still a child and you still have a right to contact. I would write to her mother and your daughter and state that whilst understanding the thinking behind the letter this is not a decision she can make at this time. The court has dictated visits and you do not wish to give up your rights. If she is still of the same mind at 18 then you will respect her choices even if they are emotionally difficult. You feel it is important at this time for her to have someone in her life who loves her unconditionally.

  Just because you love someone you do not have to agree with all their bad choices. Read old posts by Aussie Oz he was in a similar position and had some good tactics for helping his children to appreciate TTAT without being pushy or confrontational.
• 

  Sobeit

  Children can cause pain regardless if they are JW's or in the world. The "emply nest" syndrome takes time

  for any parent to get over and when they do, sometimes the children mature. Your love will always be there

  for her and maybe some day, sooner or late; she might be in need of it.

  Good luck and hold your head high and enjoy life to the best of your ability.
• 

  flipper

  BETTERGUYNOW- Hang in there dude. We just have to keep up hope. It's all we've got, that and our natural love for our daughters
• 

  BetterGuyNow

  troubled mind - I LOVE THIS! "I would tell her exactly how her last message affected you."

  Separation of Powers - It's interesting you mentioned Disneyland. A few years ago we took the girls on a surprise trip. We went camping in our small motor home. It had some mechanical issues on the way, and we told the girls we were going to ask our bosses for another day since we lost one working on the rig (I'm self-employed, but I think they forgot what that means.) Early the next morning I drove to Disneyland. We woke the girls up and sat them down. "Remember we were going to ask if we could get some more time?" They reluctantly said yes, thinking we didn't get it. "Well, we sort of misled you." I handed them each a booklet of entrance tickets. "Today we are going to Disneyland. Tomorrow California Adventure. The next day we will go back to whichever one we want. Then we're going to Universal Studios. The next day we're driving to San Diego and going to Sea World. The day after that we're going to the San Diego Zoo." We opened the curtains. "We're sitting in the parking lot of Disneyland right now. Get dressed!" Man, that was such an awesome day!

  We've always done fun things when she's out, and we've also just lived like a family, which I do miss: sitting at home watching a movie or playing a game, eating dinner together. Just living together.

  Nugget - I like this line of reasoning a lot: "I would write to her mother and your daughter and state that whilst understanding the thinking behind the letter this is not a decision she can make at this time. The court has dictated visits and you do not wish to give up your rights. If she is still of the same mind at 18 then you will respect her choices even if they are emotionally difficult."

  Sobeit - Thank you. Thats all I can do at this point: make sure she knows my love is everlasting and will always be there. Short of making my pleas, when she's 18, I have to wait on her. I've received a lot of encouragment here that waiting on here has a better chance of a good ending than a sad one.

  Flipper - Thank you for your support. Hope and natural love. Right!

  So I was reading another thread about the Zone Visit, and how there was nothing in there like last year about cutting off contact with DF/DA relatives, not even emailing. I haven't found details about this event. Can someone post a link to a thread about it or fill me in? I'm wondering if this is where she got the idea. They had gone to the convention right before her visit.
• 

  doofdaddy

  I only skimmed the others comments so will probably double up on some advice but this was my experience. My son went to live with his JW mother at approximately 11 yrs old. I was disfellowshipped. He pioneered every school holidays and did fill in talks etc as he was so keen on the witness life. I would get access every two weeks and half school holidays. It was gut wrenching to be with him as he clearly loved me but was getting grief at the hall e.g. some elders stopped their boys associating with him as his father was no longer a jw. There were times where he was clearly getting enormous pressure to stop seeing me.

  He is now a father himself completely free of the jw stranglehold. How?

  By me being patient. I quickly realised that bashing the witnesses would only drive him away, so I kept it as positive as possible, asking after his friends and taking a real interest in his other life. I also did fun things with him and when that became difficult I would call regularly, always calm and consistent even if I was cut to shreds inside. Also many conversations were about great things we did together that weren't to do with the witnesses, fun and fond memories.

  The pivotal moment was inevitable (in the sense that the so called elders will eventually stuff up) as the elders accused him of something he didn't do. He was absolutely shattered but who there calm and consistent? Dad. I just supported him as they continued to dig themselves a deeper hole. They disfellowshipped him. He went wild for a time and yes I was worried but still consistent and absolutely there for him.

  To see him now a happy healthy dad putting up the Christmas tree for his little ones...

  Stay strong as you definitely are a better guy now free of the witnesses.
• 

  GrreatTeacher

  BetterGuy, your Disney surprise trip sounds wonderful! It shows a lot of thought about how kids experience their world and what would make it magical.

  You can bet she will never forget that. Both the trip and the amount of love you put into it.
• 

  SecretHeart11

  I have read some of the replies on here and you've had some great advice. Read this from a daughter with a "worldly" dad who got similar pressure to cut him off. Don't give up on her, please. For me, even though it didn't free me from the org sooner, it is what ultimately helped me get out. You don't need to pressure her, but I would suggest driving out to take her for lunch or something. I am so, so sorry you are going through this. It's a terrible, horrible thing to have your family ripped apart.
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  SecretHeart11

  Ok just read your post about Disneyland. These are the memories that she will remember and smile at. And I can tell you that I feel resentful of my mother for making me feel guilty for enjoying them. I hope you break through. 💕
• 

  BetterGuyNow

  doofdaddy -Thank you for your very encouraging experience. This is the kind of hope I was searching for. I'm in this for the long haul. She was going to make her own decision at 18 regarding her visits to me, which will likely be influenced heavily by the control of the organization, but once she starts branching out and seeing how things really are, I believe she has the potential for realizing it's all rubbish. I've actually experienced a couple of occasions during her visit where she participated in something with my wife and her daughter that I didn't expect. For example, we were camping with a group of our friends, all drinking, playing a game, and some where getting a little coarse in their language, saying things a little too suggestive (not disgusting, just more adult-company type language). I was terrified. But she was there enjoying it, laughing along, being sarcastic. I was trying to protect her for selfish reasons; I didn't want her getting a negative view of our time together. But she had a fantastic time. Well, when I was still-in at her age, I would have been embarrassed and excused myself. I'm certainly not encouraging such behavior, but that she was able to have a great time despite less-than-JW-quality entertainment... well that was a weird measure of hope.

  Secretheart11 - There is no chance I will ever give up on her. I do like your idea of driving out to take her to lunch, but she does live 9 hours away. A little rough, but I drove there for two school events so far, a couple hours a piece, and then turned around and drove back. Looooooong day but it was worth it.
• 

  kjg132

  Okay I have to comment here and I really hope you read this. I gave my own Mother one of those letters about 20 years ago. She had left the organization and I was about 16. I wish she had said that she had parental rights to see me and that I would still be visiting, at least while I was a minor. If she was upset giving you the letter, this is Not what she wants, she is trying to make a stand for her faith. If you insist, as you should as her parent, then her concience will be clear and you can enjoy her and not miss out on these formitive years. I missed out on 7 really important years with my Mom. I was a kid, I should have had a Mom regardless of the religion. She went back to the religion when I was in my early 20s and we had a great relationship again. I really really wish she had not listened to me. I lost my Mom to cancer this summer. I am grateful for all the time we had together. You can't get time back. Fight for your daughter, not in a crazy "I will make you see me " sort of way. But please let her know that as her Father you have every right to see her and parent her until she is old enough to make those decisions herself, when she is a legal adult. I hope this made some sense, but my heart aches for you and I am getting teared up writing this. She needs you to make the decision.