Michael Brown verdict discussion policy - take II

by Simon 95 Replies latest forum announcements

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  Simon

  If you want to start a topic on a particular law or approach to policing then do it, if you try to make the case on a topic that is concerned with a specific verdict in a very well publicised event then don't act surprised if people interpret it as being about that case especially if the arguments are all based on the notion that the verdict is wrong and there are mistakes in how evidence is interpreted.

  I hope body-cams become the norm. I think it will be much better for the police and protect them in situations like we've just witnessed. Others may disagree and claim it will limit their abuses. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle.

  We'll no doubt have interesting crime statistics vs police complaints to explore and interpret in years to come.
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  MeanMrMustard

  @Pacopoolio

  I think what is being said is that you can bring out topics concerning police militarization all you like. Also, you can make arguments about sociological conditions of the blacks, how they are stuck economically, and we can all have a fun debate about that (or all agree :) depending on what is said).

  But your position, as you stated: "we need reform in the legal system and police training and some way to monitor police better so it's not just one person's word against the other all of the time and so that so many unarmed people stop getting shot, see the flaws and issues with this case to see why."

  You can't point to this case because it is a bad example. MB was shot because of his actions, and DW was justified in shooting him. This case can't be about police militarization. After all, it was a single cop (without a swat team) and a single gun (which was almost stolen from DW). If you use MB's case as an example of what is wrong with police, then you are implying that DW did something wrong. In this case, the evidence seems to show he did everything right given MB's actions.

  MMM
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  DesirousOfChange

  What if the WTB&TS wins its appeal in the Candice Conti case? Are we obligated to agree with the court (in regards to our posts on this site) in such a scenerio? What about discussing Supreme Court rulings that we may disagree with? I am not trying to give you a hard time - I agree with your position on MB. But I am worried the rule has far reaching consequences.

  If Simon disagrees with the next case, he can always change the rules.

  Doc
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  Pacopoolio

  I only saw posts from myself and Coded Logic today about the evidence in particular. If there were more, I missed them, and you could be referring to them.
  
  Neither he and I, from what I saw, were posting that the jury's interpretation of the evidence was wrong. We were posting why people on this forum and on various sites interpreting the jury as ruiling him innocent as based on that evidence was incorrect. That's not what a grand jury does, nor what it is focused on. There's a big difference there. Many people interpret a grand jury as working like a court case, or having the same type of judgments, where it does not.

  As I stated I'd probably side similar to the grand jury in that case because there simply was too much of a lack of enough definitive evidence against the officer in that instance to have a trial. That doesn't necessarily reflect what I -assume- happened; it just means that by the letter of the law, I don't see a conviction coming out of what that prosecutor was presenting.
  
  As you said, I think the issue is that with hot button topics that involve race, sex, and gender, there's a point where people put assumptions of intent on people they're arguing against, and read that intent into the arguments, devolving them into shouting matches, basically. It's not impossible to hold these discussions, but it's sometimes hard to moderate between them with all of the flinging back and forth.
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  Simon

  f Simon disagrees with the next case, he can always change the rules.

  I don't think I'd need to. Would anyone be cheering for the WTS? I doubt it ...

  The only reason for these rules is to try ad keep the peace and avoid people getting angry and disruptive and the fallout then impacting other topics etc...
• 

  Simon

  We were posting why people on this forum and on various sites interpreting the jury as ruiling him innocent as based on that evidence was incorrect. That's not what a grand jury does, nor what it is focused on. There's a big difference there. Many people interpret a grand jury as working like a court case, or having the same type of judgments, where it does not.

  The grand jury is more "is there the chance of a case". Idnictment means "you get to face a court". For them to say "no" is more substantial than a regular court jury although in this case I think the line was blurred more because the regular process was disrupted because of the need for transparency.

  I actually think this was a mistake. No amount of protest or anything else should alter or change the normal processes. If it's the process for any one then it should be the process for all.

  But debate about law and order issues in general will suffer if they are made on debate about specific cases. The case in hand will always take over the focus of the discussion (and probably rightly so).
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  designs

  Shoplifting shouldn't end in death. New York x-mayor Rudy Giuliani's daughter was arrested for shoplifting. No choke holds, no face time on the asphalt.
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  designs

  Can the US, from the Federal level to the towns, get its act together for its youth. Ferguson is like thousands of towns and cities in the US where money flows away from urban centers to the suburbs. Stats show that unemployment in Ferguson and St. Louis County are 3 times greater for Blacks than Whites. and this has been rather consistent for 60+ years according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

  So knowing the problem, and knowing the trend, why are there not more Apprenticeship Programs begun in the School Districts focused on job skills needed in the County. When you graduate from High School should you have a marketable skill. Should 2 year degree Trade and Tech Schools be readily available.
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  Slidin Fast

  Shoplifting shouldn't end in death.

  Surely, that is a gross over simplification of the facts. There was a lot that went down between the theft and the conclusion of the incident.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  Shoplifting shouldn't end in death. New York x-mayor Rudy Giuliani's daughter was arrested for shoplifting. No choke holds, no face time on the asphalt.

  And did Ms Giuliani physically attack the arresting officer or try to take his gun?