Questions concerning Deng Xiaoping

by fulltimestudent 23 Replies latest social current

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I did study Chinese Studies for about one year while in college. Both my main prof and a grad student assistant stressed how few choices any intellectuals or other people had during the time period. They explained that few intellectuals supported the Community Party when it starte. Chou En Lai was shady. He survived a government crackdown that was a massacre. Maybe he was lucky. Chinese friends regards him as a cunning Confucian scholar. When the Japanese invaded China, Chiang Kai Check offered no resistance. The United States funded him to fight the invading Japenese. He did not fight. Intellectuals, artists and others flocked to the Communist Party.

    Deng's communist credentials and stance are worth mentioning. Even a footnote would be preferable to not mentioning them. His life story raises questions that arise in a Western context, even on this forum. When does a person assert their own values at the expense of rising up the ranks. Since we throwing Howard Zinn's name around, I am remind of Robert McNamara, who knew the truth about Viet Nam. He was Secretary of Defense under Presidents Kennedy and ohnson. McNamara was a whiz kid. He was CEO of Ford Motor Company before becoming a public official. He maintained silence b/c he believed/was taught that his access to the president was a greater good than a press conference informing the American public.

    A classmate of mine, a fellow public interest scholar, arranged for a leading Chinese dissident to be allowed to study at the law school. The White House and the State Department became involved in high stakes diplomacy. There are times in my life when I am grateful that I earned access to newspapers and public officials. Other times I wish I were bolder and more willing to confront issues headlon. From my perspective, it is unseemly to say that the Chinese do not deserve human rights. It is an issue that must be raised. To simply worship China's economic progress and ignore its flaws in basic human rights is troubling.

    The WT example is an illustration. People make choices in life. Gandhi wasn't always a mostly naked man in a loin cloth. I just felt that the human rights record of China should be raised. Asians deserve democracy and civil rihts and liberties as much as any other people. Chairman Mao was a cultural hero in my student days. I always felt uncomfortable when he was lionized. Few of the very privilege students.faculty would be alive under Mao. Whether Deng's actions were right or wrong belongs to long term history.

    Quoting Howard Zinn to me does not make the widespread denial of human rights an excuse. Of course, the United States might have supported a leader willing to fight the Japanese rather than support a corrupt person.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    BOTR: To glowingly report about China without ever acknowledging its failings is foolishness, unworthy of a full time student.

    I think your getting your own prejudices mixed up with what I post. I report on the progress China has made toward its prosperity, which has been the goal of both the GMD (KMT) and the CPC since the 1920's. Both parties essentially had a common goal, the modernisation ( a goal that can be critiqued**) of China and building the national ability to defend itself against predatory forays by Imperialists.

    The claimed failings of China are a common staple in western media, Chinese successes hardly rate a mention.

    I mainly attempt to post images, and let people review for themselves what it may mean.

    If it looks like China is achieving something it seems to upset you. May I ask why? Would you post a positive comment about China?

    Would you post a negative comment about the USA? Say about the way that Texas, Arizona, etc was acquired?

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    BOTR: Ha! Ha! Aside from asking the rare question, I do admire your posts. It is nice to take a beak from things JW and ignorant political discussions.

    Thank you!

    As a JW, perhaps not one of the most over the top sort, but certainly dedicated and (I praise myself) sincere. I think ordinary Jws appreciated me, I did not attend the night my DF was announced, but it was reported to me that many in the audience started to cry, that could, of course, have been for any number of reasons, but I take it as evidence that my concern for ordinary witnesses was appreciated, In posting of my own studies (the focus of which IS China) but includes a wide area of Asian topics, including early Christianity, I am trying to demonstrate that there is in the studies of human kind a wide range of interests.

    I probably do not succeed to any extent, but I hope it, at least, adds some interesting content.

  • humbled
    humbled

    Thank you FTS,

    Yes your posts add the kind of texture and background that is needed to consider a topic--any topic--well. Such posts allow for the quiet aborption of facts that are often never mentioned, issues very pertinent but ignored. But your subversive ways are so effective: we don't realized that our mind is being opened. Clever of you

    The U.S. DID acquire lands that, by those descendents of the original residents, still are called the "Occupied Lands". But we in the U.S.do not see ourselve as imperialists.

    "O. that God the gift woud gi' us to see oursel's as others see us"

    No doubt their were many in your hall that wept at your loss.

    Maeve

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    breakfast of champions: Being a full time student is understandable. But the Chinese?

    Why the Chinese? Try this perspective. (Apologies if I seem overly simplistic) Our lives/minds are governed by our culture. Our (i.e. western people) culture (which word I use, in the sense that everything that is not of biological origin is culture) is based on a mix developed from Semitic and Graeco-Roman societies. While we see this mixture of ideas as "self-evident" truths, they need not be truths at all.

    Now, at the same time that the Roman empire was controlling most of Europe, and the Mediterranean area, at the opposite end of the Euro-Asian continental mass, another great empire (the Han) was controlling most of East Asia. It was based on an almost completely different set of ideas and thinking (culture), and uniquely it had developed an idea that humans, not Gods, could control their own lives. That's very simplified, but I'm sure you can see the implications of that development. Western thinking is that the western thought system is superior. I question whether that is so.

    BTW- Why did the Chinese end maintain a more or less continual political unity, and the Roman end broke into two (the east and west empires) from which we have inherited two slightly different systems.

    The western empire failed under attack by a mass of Asian attackers (the 'huns' originally from the north of China) then fragmented into western Europe (and later, the USA), with a philosophical foundation of the Great Church (Catholicism) which also shattered into fragments.

    The eastern Empire (Byzantium) gave rise to eastern Europe, with a very dominant Russia, based on the same cultural inheritance but with a different set of "self-evident" truths. It's philosophical foundation is Orthodox Christianity, and its different.

    Ever since, the split between the east and west branches of the Christian church, the west has sought to dominate the eastern church. Does that provide a different perspective, from which to view contemporary world political struggles, with those bloody Russians refusing to think the proper "self-evident" way?

    breakfast of champions: A small book fell on my lap. It was Quotations from the Chairman. Little red book. One would have no clue that it is the Chinese. It was formatted so professionally. My heart started beating more quick! Ha!

    Heart beating faster? Did you think it a gift from the godz? Grin !!!

  • cofty
    cofty

    FTS - I don't always comment on your threads but I always read them and appreciate your unique insights and knowledge. Thanks

  • Simon
    Simon

    I think the chinese often get a raw deal but we forget the challenges with the sheer size of the population. They have suffered from massive famines in the past and have tried to address things with the 1-child policy which seems harsh but it's hard to come up with something as fair (ignoring possible corruption in any system).

    Reforming such a population with such diversity is like trying to turn a super-tanker. It is not going to happen immediately and won't be perfect but at least they are trying to turn the wheel.

    I'm sure the reporting of china that we get to see only touches on the reality.

    One thing I don't get though: on all the border security programmes, why on earth do the chinese people always insist on having so much raw meat packed into their suitcases?! What is that all about?

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    More reflections.

    I see a wonderful irony in this picture.

    The Site of the First National Congress of the CPC

    Its in a re-developed section of Shanghai called Xintiandi (pronounced shin-tee-arn-di - the i as in it). I was once given a guided tour by the Shanghai manager of a very large Hongkong company, then taken to dinner in a nearby restaurant which our host told us was like their private dining room. Our host lost interest in us, when the Chief Minister of HongKong came in. He went to eat with the Minister, and never came back to us (smile).

    The irony, is that this building, which is 'honored' and restored with care and beautiful detailing by this very wealthy capitalist company, is the birthplace of the Chinese Communist Party.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Before this thread gets too far behind, here's a catch up on Deng's greatest contribution to China. I cant really list the change to market driven economy as Deng's alone. I believe it was a majority decision within the CPC. Westerner's are hallucinating (based on their experience with their own pollies) when they think that in China, one person can dominate the political landscape.

    Anyway, here's my selection as to Deng's greatest contribution to China.

    Back in the early 50's, as happens after every war/revolution, the new government was still consolidating. They were dropped into a very dangerous situation by grandfather Kim in N. Korea - the Korean war. Forced to intervene, by Macarthur's excellent tactic of the Inchon landing and the subsequent drive deep into North Korea. The Chinese government warned that they could not tolerate a drive to the border, but Macarthur ignored the yellow light.

    The rest of the war, which roughly finished up with much the same border between NK and SK, is just history. But it left an even more unstable political landscape.

    The new Chinese government, fearing (justifiably, I believe) an attack on China, by the USA, entered into a longterm plan to build a "fortress China" in the south west of the country. US airpower, even then, would likely (from Taiwan bases) wipe out the east coast cities of China, with mind-boggling casualties and the only recourse was to build this armed fortress in Sichuan and Yunnan.

    The problem was, that the area in which it was planned, was almost uninhabited, extremely rugged, and with no transport links. First priority, became the building of a rail link. Western rail engineers, brought into consult, said it could not be done. Deng was put in charge to get it done. And he did.

    A rail link had to be built from Chongqing to Chengdu, as the first step to integrating the area into a national transport system. The railway was built at breakneck speed. It had 340 km of tunnel in a total length of 1080 km. It opened in July 1952.

    The project went on to incorporate even more transport links to support the new factories that were built inside hollowed out mountains. The cost was enormous and likely distorted the Chinese economy for decades. It had one other benefit though, it set a pattern, that the leadership should have practical experience in getting things done. In the last government headed by Hu Jintao, most of the top leadership were engineers with practical experience, who had demonstrated that they could do that.

    Of course, other experience may also be important, and, as I understand it, the requirement now for the top leadership, is that they must have the experience of governing two major provinces and building economic progress, before they would come under consideration by the CPC, for the top leadership positions.

    Considering that most of the larger Chinese provinces may have larger populations than most western nations, we may get an idea of why China has progressed so quickly.

    In the detail I've posted about Deng, I am reliant on Harrison Salisbury's, The New Emperors, Mao and Deng, A Dual Biography. (Harper Collins, London, 1992) pp 124-128.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    If anyone would like to know more about China's third line of defense, the wikipedia entry seems to give a reasonably balanced viewpoint:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Front_(China)

    Today, in a much changed China, the need for that third line has gone. Much of it has been abandoned, as these images illustrate.

    From: http://china-defense.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/the-abandoned-third-line.html

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