by Brock Talon 46 Replies latest social current
As a silly experiment i once went 2 weeks without money. It was i realized shmeful as i had my mortgage paid and a freezer full of food.
What i learnt however was the less we need money the more happy we are. So my conclusion is live within your means and dont get in to debt.
Being in debt i can imagine brings unhappiness.
Brock- Good thread. My wife and I enjoyed your book by the way, thanks for the labor of love. My 2 cents on this is as I have aged ( just turned 55 recently ) I have become much more careful about getting rid of my debts. I no longer have a car payment, very low amounts on credit cards, go for cheaper auto insurance- my whole way of life has changed in the last 10 to 15 years in becoming very cautious with my spending and it pays dividends in retaining much more of my self employed income at the end of the month when I bill my customers anew each month. Which yes, makes your life less stressful and which yes, makes you somewhat happier.
My wife and I eat healthy as well, grow our own organic garden, fruits & vegetables, which saves money and is healthier for you. I believe being content with what you have, not NEEDING to spend thousands of $$$$ can make you happier in the state you are in financially. Not having to keep up with the " Jone's " of having the latest this or that can bring less stress to your life as well and will allow you to RETAIN more money that you earn each month. So that is my 2 cents on the subject
Flipper, thanks for the shout out on the book! I completely agree with your sentiments by the way. I just wish I had the gumption to grow a garden though... So, in lieu of that, we do buy organic foods...
Anyway, this is one of those rare threads where I can agree with pretty much everything that was posted. (Not that it's important to always agree with everyone...)
It seems most of us ex-JWs have learned our lesson about money and see it more or less honestly: it's important, but it's not all-important. It can be a priority, but it's not the top priority. We should think about it, but not consume ourselves with thoughts about it. It can buy things we need and even "protect us", but in the end just having more or striving for more won't necessarily make us happier.
One of the things I have been doing the last few years is to start to think about simplifying my life. As a result, I've been starting to get rid of things, rather than accumulate them. I want to use everything I own and if I'm not really using it, I'll get rid of it. My wife and I cleaned out our kitchen of so many little appliances and gadgets and dishes we never use, we couldn't believe we had them all. They took up boxes and boxes. What the heck were we thinking when we got all that stuff? I also cleaned out my closet of old clothes, suits, ties, shoes, etc. All of this stuff went to charity and my home is now less cluttered with "stuff" I really didn't need.
Six months ago, I sold my beautiful torch red Corvette for the same reason. I'll admit, I still think about that car from time to time, but I didn't really need it. I put aside the money from its sale for other things more important to my family and got rid of an extra car to wash, do maintenance on, insure, register, etc. That car was really my mid-life crisis car, and that crisis has been over for quite some time now... so why was I holding on to it?
Basically, I want to own things, not have things own me.
Brock Talon
Does money buy happiness?
Answer Yes.
But what is most important is our ATTITUDE to money.
Gee in the 1970s i would be the richest of the rich with my microwave, fridge, flushing toilet, ipad ect ect....am i happier than the richest of the rich from the 1970s?
I think it wonderful i have 3000 to pay for an eye operstion for my wife, that to be 70 is young in 2015, it means at 50 i am a little babe. When i was a kid 60 was old and people died at 65.
Hope the above makes sence?
if you have enough money to live comfortably and not worry about escalating prices, you are going to be one hell of a lot more happy than someone who can't earn enough to make ends meet or to pay rent on a decent living space or buy proper groceries and apparel.
an excess of money though does not necessarily equate with happiness and satisfaction, because those derive from more than physical comfort and security. there has to be mental and intellectual, plus emotional and spiritual gratification. love = to love and to be loved - is not dependent on bank accounts or personal monetary worth.
but - given a choice between rich and poor in terms of $$$ - a great majority will likey opt for the $$$
80% of wealth is inherited.
There is this interesting idea most of us have that says "more money is not always better". For example Tiki said it this way: "An excess of money though does not necessarily equate with happiness and satisfaction." Others have said it in other ways too. I even thought this myself... until I poured through the survey I referenced in Time magazine. Now, I'm not so sure about that, at least, statistically speaking I'm not so sure of it.
Yes, I can see scenarios where there are miserable wealthy people. We've all seen them. Heck, you almost can't observe most Hollywood people over any period of time to not see it. But that's not what I am talking about. I would like to focus on averages, not the outliers like the Hollywood elite. Or the welfare recipients. I'd like to talk about the majority of the people in between. I would even include most "normal" high income earners, not the rock stars, athletes, movie stars etc. I think those "famous" people are statistical anomolies. What about the relatively unknown executives that make millions from careers they have been working at all their lives? What about small business owners who built great money-making machines that they now get to enjoy? I think most of these people get great satisfaction and happiness from their work.
The survey itself belies this notion of "more is not necessarily better". Going back to the survey and looking at it from a purely statistical viewpoint (see below) that is, speaking on average, the more money one makes, the happier one is. Period.
There was no "leveling off" of this either. I observed this "leveling off" idea in an earlier survey a few years ago. It basically stated that once you made X dollars per year, you were pretty much as happy as you were going to be.Well, this new survey doesn't completely agree with that. Yes, this survey shows a big jump in happiness between the lowest and middle quintiles, so the line starts to level off, but it never really completely levels off. It always goes up, just not as drastically near the top.
So, the more money one makes doesn't linearly affect your happiness at the same rate, but one is still more happy. It's not like the guy who makes $500,000 per year is twice as happy as the guy who makes $250,000 per year. But I suspect he would say he is just a tiny bit happier... and probably lives a tiny bit longer too.
I know, it doesn't sound fair. I know, it's not the politically correct thing to say. But it seems to be the reality, at least, if we can trust Time magazine surveys.
Just look at the figures below: Going from the simple 5 groupings in the survey, each one not only was happier when they made more money, they also lived longer. I almost wish they had another Top %1 group to see what they would have said regarding being happier than the Top 5%, and to see if they lived longer than the rest of the Top 5%.
I suspect they would.
I would love to be in the top 1% and let you know!
Brock Talon : in your above tjread you underline " THE MORE MONEY ONE MAKES, THE HAPPIER ONE IS PERIOD"
it is more complicated than that. That's like saying a girl working on minimum wage would be happier as a prostitute.
Making money and having money are different questions.
Even in my culture, a nurse on a minimum wage,can have a more meaningful life, and be happier than someone earning obscene money.
Live, Laugh, Love,& contributie to society brings happiness.
New Hope and Happiness,
I agree with you. It is more complicated than that. A nurse on minimum wage can have a more meaningful life than someone earning obscene money. No argument there.
A nurse making minimum wage can also live longer than someone earning lots of money too.
But the statistics in the Time magazine survey say that on average, that is simply not likely.
I have to keep pointing back to the statistical averages in the survey. Not the exceptions. If you or your loved ones are the exceptions, then congratulations. The survey shows thre are people in that exception category. But that doesn't mean that on average the more you make the happier you are is not accurate. It just means you've beaten the odds.
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I bring up all this because I want to shatter the Jehovah's Witness notion that going out in service, going to meetings, praying, studying the Bible, etc. alone makes for happiness. But this simple survey shows that on average, happiness and longer life come from other things. The Bible isn't even in the equation. For example, making money was tied education.. I don't know how, it just is. I realize that correlation is not causation, but that doesn't mean they are not related.
Higher education, longer life, less drug use, less criminal involvement.... these things are all related to more money and greater happiness somehow. Again, I don't know how, they just are.
Many, many years ago I left Bethel because I wanted a more fulfilling life than just churning out lots of Bibles and books. I wanted to go to college, stretch my brain on other things. Yes, I wanted to make more money too and buy a house, buy a car or two, have a retirement account. Invest. Start a small business, etc. I have found that by doing these things, I not only have more money, I am more happy. In my particular case, when I was a broke pioneer or a broke Bethelite I was not happy at all. Those unloving jerks made me feel like crap because I wanted to leave Bethel and do more with my life. But to me, when I read a survey like this, it vindicates the suspicision I have held all along.
Now that I have taken hold of my own career, financial life, pursued higher education and all those other things, I am one of those people in the survey that would say "I am very happy"...
I wouldn't have said that if I had stayed a Jehovah's Witness doing the things that were supposedly "spiritually meaningful" in my life.
Brock Talon
