The more people who leave the Witnesses, the more people will leave. True?

by ThomasCovenant 31 Replies latest jw friends

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  OneEyedJoe

  I saw or read something on sorta related a while back (I think it was a TED talk, but I can't find it) that discussed groups in which it is possible for everyone in the group to have serioius misgivings about whatever the group is doing, but everyone keeps it to themselves because there's a perception by all that everyone else is firmly in favor of the group. It's possible, at least in small pockets of the JW community, that this could be the state of affairs - everyone (or a large minority) going along because they think everyone else believes it. In such a pocket, a relatively small walk-out would have far-reaching effects.

  That said, I don't think a grand appostate walk-out would severly criple the organization. Any positive feedback created would likely be isolated in small groups, and for everyone outside that group it would be easily explained away as a fluke, not part of a grander pattern. I've noticed in other threads that while 2/3rds of born-ins leave it seems that in many cases groups leave or stay together, for the most part. So there's many people who relate that all their friends from childhood are out, and many who say that everyone is still in.

  This cult does seem to be dying a slow death in developed countries, though, so maybe in a few years such a walkout could happen and have a sweeping effect on the membership.
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  Phizzy

  The Titanic was supposedly unsinkable, it is always possible that the Big Ship Jayworg may hit its very own iceburg.

  Thomas Cov said " For me, my conscience and personal principles of honesty and integrity would no longer allow me to have anything to do with the religion once I finally realized what it really was."

  This is exactly what happened to me, whilst I woke up to the fact that the 1914 doctrine was pure s**te, I did not know any more TTATT, but I learned a little over the months I waited for the Elder to call back and build my faith in 1914, he never called back of course.

  In those months I used the time to "plant some seeds", with what success I don't know, as before long I had come to exactly the conclusion Thomas did, I walked away, knowing I could never return, not even for one Meeting, as that would seem to say I still had some respect for the beliefs.

  If you are going to walk eventually, but still attend, see if you can plant just a few tiny seeds, do not endanger your position though, it needs doing with the utmost care.
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  OnTheWayOut

  There may well be a mass exit from Watchtower some day. It would probably involve some major exposure of terrible practices. And it could very well start from a smaller exit of many faders or unbelievers sitting there for their family.

  It seems more likely that Watchtower will keep shrinking very slowly. I think they are doing all they can to make the United States numbers seem like they are still growing. But you can only add in U.S. territories and start counting kids younger and younger and keep counting the elderly as members for so long before there is no place left for growth. Oh, they already focused on the foreign-language and American Sign Language areas for growth in the last few years and might be able to milk a few more out of that, but even there growth is limited and running out.

  They already report peak numbers as realities. Those can easily be late August numbers (end of service year) caused by getting everyone to turn in reports for months past so that those people are getting counted more than once that month into the peak number.

  Expect them to ditch the numbers sooner or later. jw.org allows them to start counting people from "hits" instead of counting "publishers." When they enter that realm, the numbers will be fantasies and many will walk out. But they hope others won't notice.
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  berrygerry

  It is curious that the peak numbers is used, and that there has never been disclosure of how it is calculated. Is it cong. by cong.?

  Circuit?

  District?

  Country?

  Branch?

  Also, EVERY CO visit used to complain about meeting attendance always being low when compared with number of publishers. When they count non-publisher children as attenders, that makes for a telling statistic.
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  OneEyedJoe

  Also, EVERY CO visit used to complain about meeting attendance always being low when compared with number of publishers. When they count non-publisher children as attenders, that makes for a telling statistic.

  This was always my experience too...oddly enough, though, our last CO visit was quite different. In the concluding talk of the visit, where they typically guilt trip you about service time and meeting attendance, he said that the elders had complained to him that meeting attendence was a problem, but he thought we were doing just fine. This is odd because we typically have maybe 60-70% attendence for sunday, and probably closer to 50% for the mid-week.

  To me this indicates one of two possibilities. He might be the good-cop CO prepping us for the bad-cop CO. The other possibility is he could be seeing the greater trend of people leaving, and 50-70% attendance may strike him as exceptional these days. He's made lots of comments that sound very non-WT, like "even if we're not doing everything we should be, or even if we're not making all the meetings, we're still so much better in god's eyes than the rest of the world." In general he spends a lot of time saying things that seem to be aimed at making people feel less guilty, which I don't remember hearing ever before.
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  Phizzy

  It seems to be a general policy I feel, keep the R&F busy-ish, but above all happy and feeling good to be a JW.

  The G B may have woken up to the fact that constantly demanding more in the way of time etc makes many say "stuff this for a game of soldiers" and walk away, never to contribute again.

  They are now trying, in a small way, by lightening the burden, to retain the members they have got, 'coz recruitment of new suckers has slowed to a dribble, consisting of a few drips.
• 

  Vidiot

  ThomasCovenant - "If more faders stopped fading and just stopped, would more of the many closet unbelieving attendees just stop too, creating a momentum?"

  I've often thought about that very question.

  I'd say that history would support a tacit "yes", although I freely admit that I'm biased.

  x

  I do suspect that there are far more "closet unbelieving attendees" and fence-sitters than there are full-on believers, and that current circumstances seem to be making it easer to make the decision to fade/leave.

  (Frankly, I suspect the GB actually wants the fence-sitters and "lukewarm" to f**k off, but that's a whole 'nother topic.)
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  LostGeneration

  I believe this to be true, by quitting you activate brain cells in some JWs who are curious. Sometimes they know something is wrong on a subconscious level but they don't/won't think about it until they see that others also recognize the problem. A few have told me personally that they left and I had an indirect role in doing so. I was DFd and it was widely known the reason why (apostasy).

  Sitting in the hall for years on end when you don't believe it only helps perpetuate the lie.
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  Vidiot

  LostGeneration - "Sitting in the hall for years on end when you don't believe it only helps perpetuate the lie."

  Slowly drives you batshit crazy, too, IMHO.
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  westiebilly11

  ..in hindsight i wish that I had stood up during a public talk or the watchtower bible study and just exclaimed/said' this is rubbish!'..and then just walked out of the hall.....perhaps others would then have followed in due course...those who fade as has been said risk exclusion by family and friends...as they are perceived as weak..'not of our sort' as the well worn phrase goes..