Accounts of Jesus From Hostile Ancient Sources

by Perry 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry
    Perry

    From ancient accounts hostile to Christinity, we can learn the following:

    Jesus was born and lived in Palestine. He was born, supposedly, to a virgin and had an earthly father who was a carpenter. He was a teacher who taught that through repentance and belief, all followers would become brothers and sisters. He led the Jews away from their beliefs. He was a wise man who claimed to be God and the Messiah.

    He had unusual magical powers and performed miraculous deeds. He healed the lame. He accurately predicted the future. He was persecuted by the Jews for what He said, betrayed by Judah Iskarioto. He was beaten with rods, forced to drink vinegar and wear a crown of thorns. He was crucified on the eve of the Passover and this crucifixion occurred under the direction of Pontius Pilate, during the time of Tiberius.

    On the day of His crucifixion, the sky grew dark and there was an earthquake. Afterward, He was buried in a tomb and the tomb was later found to be empty. He appeared to His disciples resurrected from the grave and showed them His wounds. These disciples then told others Jesus was resurrected and ascended into heaven. Jesus’ disciples and followers upheld a high moral code. One of them was named Matthai. The disciples were also persecuted for their faith but were martyred without changing their claims. They met regularly to worship Jesus, even after His death.

    Read the evidence Article compiled by Cold-Case Detective, J. Warner Wallace

  • HowTheBibleWasCreated
    HowTheBibleWasCreated

    All these accoutns are at least second century onward and based on the gospels... I though you were a born-again beliver Perry...lol

    These texts only show that by the late second century the gospels were written

    Show me your Matthai source?

    Your admitting that Jesus used Magic? Don't worry Simon Magus did too lol

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic

    No, we can't learn ANY of that from ancient sources. Because the ancient sources that you provide in your references

    A.) Didn't know Jesus.

    B.) Weren't contemporaries of Jesus (all were born after Jesus supposed cruxifiction)

    C.) None of them knew anyone who knew Jesus.

    D.) And the sources for their information comes from Christians over sixty years after Jesus died.

    What you're claiming is equivalant to future historians from the year 4000 saying that a reference from a present day day figure - who in turn is citing one the nuts from Ancient Aliens - proves that aliens actually landed at Roswell. Using sources, who themselves are getting their information from third hand biased accounts, written decades after a supposed event, is NOT a credible source.

    The writer of your link, J Warner Wallace, is not a historian nor is he a textual critic. He has a degree in Architecture and his book in NOT peer reviewed. In other words, he has no academic credibility in this field and his work has not been checked. It's always good to get information from a wide range of sources but when your reading online be sure to always CHECK SOURCES!

    Thallus, Tacitus, Mara Bar-Serapion, Phlegon, Pliny the Younger, etc, are not capable of supporting the claims that you are making becuase none of them were contemporariers of Jesus and their sources are all from unknown third hand accounts.

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    Have you ever noticed how miracles only happened in the very ancient past and will only happen again in the future?

    They never happen right now. Never.

    Funny that.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Thanks guys, I couldnt formulate a reasoned answer when I read the OP, I just knew it was pap.

    I am constantly amazed at how the believing brain appears to function.

  • designs
    designs

    Oh the crash is going to be so bad....

  • galaxie
    galaxie

    Perry I commend you for seeking evidence for jesus and what you attribute to him.

    Looks like further investigation is necessary, or are you convinced by your research so far?

    If so you are gullible and must have an underlying reason to base your life on such second /third hand accounts from ancients with an ancient uneducated agenda.

    You are living in the 21st cent is it not time to wise up.

    Best wishes.

  • designs
    designs

    The story of Fatima is true, just ask the little children who saw her....

  • Perry
    Perry

    I personally appreciated the research that this guy did. Hostile sources are excellent ways of corroborating things. I have never seen such a list of quotes all in one place. Several, I had not considered before.

    Most of his conclusions that appear in my opening post seem rather sound. All in all, a good read for the history buff.

  • MadGiant
    MadGiant

    No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus.

    All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. Although one can argue that many of these writings come from fraud or interpolations, I will use the information and dates to show that even if these sources did not come from interpolations, they could still not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus, simply because all sources about Jesus derive from hearsay accounts.

    Hearsay does not work as evidence because we have no way of knowing whether the person lied, or simply based his or her information on wrongful belief or bias.

    42 historians recorded important events during or shortly after the supposed times of Jesus, but NO ONE recorded anything about Jesus, apostles, or any supposed acts that we find only in the Bible.

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