London Press Conference on CULTS and UNDUE INFLUENCE - Aug 22, 2014

by Watchtower-Free 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  TJ Curioso

  Oubliette: exactly what really happened, and this reality only God knows. Because someone is claiming something, don't means that he is telling the whole truth.. in italian we call this type of persons who beliefs everything: creduloni...

  Enzo as I said, the experience of Cedars is the same as hundreds or thousands. You don't see a pattern here???

  Tj curioso: Leggitimate influence is permissible.. Read my post carefully before making conclusions. i thought that with a university degree you would be better in making conclusions...

  I don't have a university degree. I'm still in the university...
  I don't understand as You say that a religion that commands parents to shunning is sons or otherwise is considered "leggitimate influence". Incredible!
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  Witness My Fury

  Lets review: It's a troll!
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  Oubliette

  WMF!
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  Enzo

  Tj Curioso: you want to see patterns,, like John's Cedars with a team of professionals, behind him. But I don't think that a high court would be very easily convinced... There is a lobby machine going on from ex-cult members on internet : and John Cedars is one of them.. i hope that you will use your critical thinking, and you analize all the other sources avaible in the psychiatric community about undue influence..and try then to make a rational thesis, without being influenced by ex cult members.. and that is a great problem for you.. You are not very neutral, but emotionally involved.. And every thing I will say to you, you will not accept. I think you are a smart boy, and I hope you will take your degree.. have a nice time..

  by the way John Cedars told he baptized by th JW's he was eleven years old... the question is was he forced against his will to become a JW? Can you speak about undue influence exercised on a eleven year old boy? Is this scientifically possible? What about a catholic boy who's parents decide to let hem do his second communion in the church? Isn't this also undue influence? i hope that you would think about a possibility of a leggitimate influence, by parents with good intentions, rather than claiming on a theorie of indue influence.. At a age f 20 years he analysed the teachings of the JW's, and took a certain period before he took the decision to leave the JW's... Is there somebody of the JW's who forced him against his will to remain a JW? No.. And about the procedure of leaving a religious organisation, it is legally established..but the main Issue remains: why isn't he going with al this proffesional team to a high court with all those claims? Do you think he will win? Perhaps on internet..but the possibilities in a real high court are very low.....

  I will wait and see...but I don't thinks so..
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  rip van winkle

  Enzo you are really full of baloney.
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  TJ Curioso

  Enzo I really don't understand Your position in this subject and why You enforce the ideia that the religion as nothing to do with things like shunning familiars, etc. and that this is not "undue influence".

  If You have a religious organization that say to is members that is the God's "sole channel" on earth, everything that comes from her is seen as having God approval. EVERYTHING!

  Even something like: "don't take a blood transfusion even if Your loved one face the risk of death". Well, if people are able of this, why not do things like shunning the relatives that get out from the religion, as the religion tell to do?

  For Your point of view tell me one thing that You think identifies "undue influence" in a cult.

  About courts and undue influence see this:

  Cults in American Society: A Legal Analysis of Undue Influence, Fraud, and Misrepresentation

  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H1dF0wBCS2509VGT4ulMyZW9JeUfEjEnCbJUAeYbmh8/edit

  (see more articles about cults and "undue influence" here: http://scholar.google.com.br/scholar?start=0&q=undue+influence+cults&hl=pt-PT&as_sdt=0,5
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  Enzo

  Rip van winkel: Yes, I am imitating you, and a lot of others here..

  Am I against to inform people about the dangers of being involved in a destructive cult? No at all ...There must be an information centre, but the information presented must be accepted by all the psychiatric community.. No theories that are still not accepted..and still under discussion...2) balanced material presented with scientifical evidences..( not manipulate by ex-cult members).

  about the dangers of a destructive cult, and the idea of denying responsability, from our part in it when making a choise to get involved in these dangerous cults...I will make this example: we all know the dangers involved by climbing a mountain like the mont blanc, or the Himalaya isnt it? you can arrive at tht top, but you can also fall, and hurt you, or even die.. Every year you can hear that someone has died, or in a clinical coma, because of an accident when climbing that mountain... But why then a lot of people ignore these dangers, and take the risk? Because it's their desire, their favourite sport....here is the point: It's their choice, and they will do it... conclusion : There are several destructive cults,(mountains)! If

  we decide to climb these mountains(destructive cults) think at the dangers involved.. If your desire for spiritual adventure is so strong, and you take the risks, then it is your responsability if you hurts yourself. you have made this choice,...thus think twice before making spiritual adventures...and make always a rational analys..
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  TJ Curioso

  Enzo You forget something in Your ilustration. When You climb a moutain You know the risks envolved. The problem is that the majority of persons don't know or cannot identified what is a potencial "destructive cult". The Cult misrepresent itself so the person don't understand the manipulation and the control that is envolved.

  And that is the problem with cults! A lot of people don't see JW as a dangerous cult. Others don't see Cientology as a dangerous cult. And so on... It is why many people continue to join the ranks of these groups.

  If they have all the information about them, they will join? I think the majority don't! But that information is often hidden. And when the person understand or fill that is something wrong, she is trapped in. And the pain to get out is to much.
  
  When people like me and Cedars, that grow up in the cult, its even more difficult because all our life was built around the religion and have friends, familie, etc. with in the cult.
  
  If You never belong to this kind of thing, it's difficult to You understand.
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  rip van winkle

  Enzo, lol. Wheel again the spin, Yoda. :)
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  Enzo

  Tj curioso: can people not see, or evaluate the risks involved by joining a destructive cult? Yes if you can't read, or you are mentally unstable. ore children, or even adolescents...but if you are not in these category, you can make a lot of research these days, a lot of information, is accessible, or avaible, about destructive cults.. pretenting that undue influence is the only cause of being involved in destructive cults, is deniying, your personal responsability. At the end, we have made this choice.. We did something wrong...we made a bad decision.. reconizing our part in it, would empowered us to be more carefully in the future..