Discussion with 2 Elders about IS

Da.Furious

Some will notice I was really busy during the weekend, that’s true as some JWs will say I was in a spiritual paradise surrounded by brothers.

My view of a paradise is everybody living in harmony and happy, my weekend experience was more like unhappy people and complaining about almost everything, not to mentioned the quite discussion in the corners (i.e. gossips).

Anyway, during on the discussions, the IS (Islamic State) topic was started. It all started when on the elders said that he prefers to talk to Muslims in the ministry since they are more open minded and accept our teaching.

I don’t come from a Muslim background but lived among them enough to understand what they believe. In order not to generalise, like any other religion, you will find mixed mentalities and different people react to our preaching work differently, some are polite and others are hardcode and refuse anything we say.

Anyway, the discussion went on to start criticising the IS people and how brain washed they are. IMO That’s true because I believe no one in his right mind will put a belt of explosives on himself and kill women and children. What surprised me was this statement that one of the elders mentioned: I spoke with one Muslim person and he was so defensive about his religion to the point of him telling me that in their religion they are not allowed to question their believes! This is the case with some IS people, they do what they are doing it because they are afraid to ask or reason.

He then compared them to Mormons, who follow their leader without question, because they are not allowed.

The shocking statement was and I quote: They should be more like us, we have bible discussions and the society helps us through reasoning to discern what is right and what is wrong.

After he finished, I was speechless, I didn’t know what to say or what to comment. Did he just say we are allowed to question our believes but only in the society’s way? So how does this make us any different?

Day by day I get shocked and surprised how narrow/closed minded some JWs are. As Jesus said in Mt 7:3: Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye but do not notice the rafter in your own eye?

Da Furious

designs

Did the founders of Islam and Christianity encourage or allow discent, questioning, divergent views....No!

Don't expect much from their disciples.

Coded Logic

"I'm just so glad we aren't mind controlled like those other - what's that Brother? Yes, I'm planning on shaving my face just as soon as we get back to the hotel. I wouldn't want to violate the Societies' official policy of facial hair no longer then 3 microns. Anyway, as I was saying - I'm just so glad we aren't brainwashed like those other religions . . ."

krejames

Good thread. So true .

cantleave

You did well not laugh out loud in his face. There is no way I could have bitten my tongue if I was exposed to such garbage.

Da.Furious

After his statement, i just put my head down and went on doing something else. It was really hard form me not to answer him or just ask him to repeat the statement once again and meditate about it and see if it makes any sense.

Oubliette

This is the case with some IS people, they do what they are doing it because they are afraid to ask or reason.

He then compared them to Mormons, who follow their leader without question, because they are not allowed.

They should be more like us, we have bible discussions and the society helps us through reasoning to discern what is right and what is wrong.

Great quote. It's ironic that JWs can't see that they are EXACTLY like people in other religions.

You could have said, "Not really. Look what happens in our religion if anyone questions the doctrines or teachings of the 'Faithful Slave.' That person will be disfellowshipped for apostasy. We are no different from fundamentalist Muslims or Mormons in this regard. You are very much mistaken."

jgnat

This article makes sense:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070620115415.htm

....“But then suicide bombing is in actual fact very rare. Rare, that is, when it is remembered that extreme religious groups make up only a tiny fraction of religious groups as a whole, and 99.99 per cent of those groups are in fact peaceable.

“Statistically, then, finding one or two people willing to make such a sacrifice is incredibly rare. However, given the nature of suicide bombing, it only takes one or two.”

The attractions of intense solidarity don't only apply to fringe Islamic sects, but also to other extreme religious groups, Dr Stevens said. Many members of other such groups — from the Moonies to the Branch Davidians — explain their decisions to join, and as importantly to leave, in terms of the costs and benefits of participation rather than in the context of a 'brainwashing' process.

Dr Stevens also argues that contrary to popular opinion, poverty, isolation and lack of education are not typical features of the bomber profile. ...

Likewise it is a common misconception that suicide bombers are mentally ill or irrational, Dr Stevens argues — because it would make them a liability to the terrorist groups with which they were involved.

......

The WTS minimises the cost of leaving to the new recruit, and then swiftly wises them up after baptism. As you all know, the more invested in the WTS, the harder it is to walk away. I must think more about this cost-benefit rationale.

millie210

Da.Furious you are so correct in your observations (sadly).

As someone who grew up in "the truth" I barely recognize the people OR the religion.

I think that the society did less to control members in the past. Some people think the truth was more strict in the older days.

I dont know....I DO know that the religion today is starting to remind me of a government that promises you everything and in turn, demands everything.

Very strange.

sporece

You should have asked privately " What happens if we as a JW ask too many questions or don't agree with the GB?

Simple question that would shut him up!!

Discussion with 2 Elders about IS

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