Jesus as a Ransom for Humans or not

by fulltimestudent 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • designs

    Israel (Jews) have not rejected the Messiah, they just do not accept Jesus (Yeshua ben Yoseph) of the Gospels as the Jewish Messiah....he made to many mistakes.

  • givemejustalittlemoretime

    Wellif you do not want to accept THeMessiah just like Israel back then thats up to you. But we have 2 witnesses of the fact he is true. 1 the written testimony about Christ and more importantly 2 The living testimony of many who Messiah has revealed himself to throught the generations. If you want to seek him, then he will reveal himself to you, he is not far from you. If not go eat, drink and be merry.

  • kassad84
  • Ingenuous


    After avoiding the BIble for a while, I decided to start up my studies again with some translations that provided context along with a translation. I picked up "The Jewish Annotated New Testament", which is based on the NRSV. Some notes I found interesting, and hope you find useful:

    In the introductory comments to John, the editors mention that they don't favor the theory that the "Johannine" followers of Jesus were kicked out of the synagogue, immediately, due to their beliefs. In support of this, they site Rabbi Akiva, who confessed his own favorite for Messiah without undue damage to his reputation within the community. The editors do suggest, however, that the negative light "the Jews" are portrayed clearly portray tensions between the larger community and this group of professed believers, and this Gospel may reflect the development of their separation in thought and behavior from the synagogue over time. It looks as if the Johannine community was a culturally mixed one that aimed to become moreso.

    As far as the "ransom" question: The editors' notes aren't particularly interesting when it comes to chapter 10, but do become more specific when talking about the 'last supper' discourse in chapter 14. In discussing verses 6-11, they note: "[v. 6] 'The way', a summary of Johannine Christology. Christ-believers called themselves '"The Way" (Acts 9:2). '', knowledge of truth is more like a personal relationship, instead of an intellectual experience... To 'see' Jesus [v. 7] is not a visual experience but one of personal knowledge; therefore to know Jesus and to understand his life is to understand and know the life of God."

  • Gregor

    Human sacrifice plays a big part in many beliefs, mostly pagan.

  • Viviane

    But we have 2 witnesses of the fact he is true.

    Who, specifically?

  • opusdei1972

    It seems that Jesus did not foresee that he would be condemned in the way it happened. He believed he was the Messiah primarily for the Jews, and he thought that the earthly kingdom would come during his days and he would be enthroned by God and Jerrusalem would be free from the romans. But it seems that he did something politicaly wrong in the temple, so he was condemned and crucified. After that, his disciples tried to justify this unexpected death by finding verses of the Old Testament. Then, after 70 AD, some gentile disciples propagated the idea that he was born from a virgin, so he preexisted. Whatever, Jesus wanted to propagate his ideas to the Jews, but not to the gentiles. The Gospel of John contains a higher Christology (Jesus as God the Logos), who was invented many decades after Jesus's death.

  • prologos

    givemejustalittlemoretime : how and when was my.-- or anyone's divine nature been compressed? eating the forbidden fruit perhaps?

  • humbled

    The ransom seems to be an invention to solve an imaginary problem.

    But the teachings of love and compassion that go beyond tribe and family--these are necessary and universal.

    If we still look to the bible for any reason we are forced to be cherry-pickers, what? After all, what was left to us-- just the gleanings of the church"fathers" who left behind only what they wished us to find--hiding so much and adding their own thought to it.

    Theologians. Wthat a complicated mess religion is!

  • WTWizard

    Jesus is nothing more than the archetype of the perfect slave, not a ransom. That thing as a ransom is bait for us to put psychic energy into the creation of the real messiah, which will pull the whole human race down into global communism. You will be totally enslaved, if not dead, under this messiah. The only real hope is to have that thing not show up in the first place, and if too many people keep following that thing they call jesus, it will show up.

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