Could it be because there is no such thing as the right religion since that's just another product of human reasoning?
The Great Crowd Catch 22
by Perry 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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AndDontCallMeShirley
terry: Notice: the word "anointed" has only 1 "n"
Actually, "anointed" has two "n's"...just not together. LOL.
Viv: How do we know Muslims or Jews don't have the right religion?
Because Christians say they don't. Obviously.
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Oubliette
Sorry about the emotionally charged conversation with your dad.
The problem is that you are operating under the premise that doctrine matters. Although the WTBTS makes a lot of noise about the importance of "accurate knowledge," the fact is that doctrine does NOT matter in this religion. - Romans 10:2, Col. 1:9, 10
Just a little dispassionate, objective reflection on the many, many doctrinal changes that this religion has made over its history is proof that doctrine simply does not matter. If you are a JW, then on any given Sunday you can wake up believing one thing, but by the end of the WT study you just might find that you now believe something different. Why? Because of "New Light."
This is one of the reasons Steven Hassan advises, never discuss doctrine with a cult member. The other reason is that it usually invokes their cult identity and triggers a number of thought-stopping phrases to come to their mind, as your experience shows.
You are operating under the illusion that JW beliefs should be coherent, consistent, logical and make sense. They don't. They never have and they never will. Stop arguing with reality and you'll feel better.
In JW land there is only one mantra that matters: Listen, Obey and Be Blessed!
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Terry
Actually, "anointed" has two "n's"...just not together. LOL.
DOH!
Nice catch!
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Perry
Blondie,
Thank you VERY MUCH for that research. I put the quotes you found and the one I had from 2011 in a date-ordered table form so it would be easier to understand the Evolution of Watchtower Salvation.
It is clear to me that the Watchtower is just utterly making stuff up as they go along. There are no scriptural supports for all the different kinds of righteousness and cleaness that they try to differentiate . They are simply distinctions WITHOUT a difference. But, somehow these distinctions supposedly gives the rank and file permission to reject the blood covenant for full forgiveness of sins.
It is clear to me that they are trying as hard as they can to keep people from being part of the blood covenant that washes a person clean from their sins. It makes no difference whatsoever the destination of the annointed (church age saints) or the earthly bound tribulation survivors. Revelation 7 makes it clear that the Great Crowd washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb. There is ONLY one way to access the blood of the lamb, and that is through the New Covenant (See Mt. 26: 27,28) which JESUS SAYS IS SPECIFICALLY for the "forgiveness of sins", and NOT rulership positions per se.
Declared Righteous?
Publication
Quote
Position
Sept. 1954
NO
w54 9/1 p. 522 Declared Righteous by Jehovah
In view of what we have seen about justification or being declared righteous by faith as being only a means to an end, so that certain ones might be eligible to membership in Christ’s body and share heavenly glory with him, it follows that all whose destiny is the earth, the foregoing ones mentioned, would have no need of having righteousness imputed to them.
The Great Crowd is not declared righteous … period
Mostly No
it-1 p. 606 Declare Righteous
The “great crowd,” who survive the “great tribulation,” are not yet declared righteousfor life—that is, as worthy of the right to everlasting life on earth. They need to continue partaking of the “fountains of waters of life,” as guided by the Lamb, Christ Jesus. They will need to do this during the Millennial Reign of Christ. (Re 7:17; 22:1, 2) If they prove loyal to Jehovah through a final test at the end of the thousand years, they will have their names permanently retained in God’s book of life, Jehovah thus declaring, or acknowledging, that they finally are righteous in the complete sense.
The Great Crowd is not declared righteous “for life”. This implies that there may be another kind of interim righteousness that the Great Crowd can partially have.
They are declared righteous in a “complete sense” after the millennium reign.
July 1996
No, as Sons
Yes, as friends
w96 7/1 p. 20 par. 5 The Triumph of True Worship Draws Near
The great crowd do not serve God in the condition pictured by the inner priestly courtyard. They are not declared righteous for the purpose of being God’s adopted, spiritual sons. (Romans 8:1, 15) Nevertheless, by exercising faith in Jesus’ ransom, they have a clean standing before Jehovah. They are declared righteous with the purpose of being his friends.
The Great Crowd is declared righteous as “God’s Friends”
Feb 1998
No, as Sons
Yes, as Friends
But not by the blood covenant
w98 2/1 p. 20 par. 7 The Other Sheep and the New Covenant
For the other sheep, being declared righteous as God’s friends allows them to embrace the hope of everlasting life in a paradise earth—either by surviving Armageddon as part of the great crowd or through the ‘resurrection of the righteous.’ (Acts 24:15)
The Great Crowd is declared righteous as “God’s Friends”, but not by the blood covenant of Jesus. It is now by either surviving the Great Tribulation or the “resurrection of righteousness”
May 2002
Yes, by the blood
No, as Sons
Yes as friends & survivors
w02 5/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers
They are spiritually clean, having “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” Hence, they are declared righteous with a view to becoming friends of God and of surviving the great tribulation. (James 2:23, 25) In many ways, they are like proselytes in Israel who submitted to the Law covenant and worshiped along with the Israelites
Here the Great Crowd is allowed to be spiritually clean by the blood of the lamb. But they are only declared righteous as friends and/or by surviving the Great Tribulation. They still are not given a righteous standing by the blood of Jesus.
June 2008
Yes, by the ransom
No, by the blood covenant
And, only as friends and survivors
w08 6/15 p. 29 Highlights From the Letter to the Romans ***DECLARED RIGHTEOUS—HOW?
… they are being declared righteous by [God’s] undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom…Through faith in “one act of justification,” both anointed Christians and members of the “great crowd” of “other sheep” can be “declared righteous”—the former for life in heaven as joint heirs with Christ and the latter as God’s friends, with a view to surviving “the great tribulation.”
The great crowd is allowed to be declared righteous by the ransom, but apparently not by the blood covenant and then, only as friends and / or survivors of the great tribulation
June 2011
No
&
Yes
W11 6/15 p. 15
These have not received “the free gift of righteousness” with heavenly life in view “through the release by the ransom paid by Christ Jesus.”… The gift such ones receive —friendship with God—differs from “the free gift” the anointed receive. Yet, it certainly is a gift that they accept with deep gratitude.
The great crowd doesn’t get the free gift of righteousness; they get friendship only. However the image caption on the same page reads that the great crowd is declared righteous
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DATA-DOG
Well, I guess my sins are forgiven. When I partook I really believed it. Since then I have spiraled downward and life's kicking my ass as the years inevitably pass. Where is GOD??? Why in the hell would I even matter??
DD
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designs
So it all boils down to for you Believers- one thinks they get something special now and another thinks they get it in the future. That's it!?
You cry and grind your teeth at each other over timing???
You both should be ashamed of yourselves, you're grown men, father and son, goddammit act like it...
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Quarterback
Yes, well explain this one to me. We have an Anointed one in our congregation who is DF'd. He will be reinstated eventually. So is he declared righteous while in this state? He will be reintated, and then he will be partaking of the emblems again. But, those faithful other sheep have to wait 1,000 years to be declared righteous? What if we are wrong with the 1,000 years. What if it is a symbolic number? We were wrong on the length of a generation. Wrong on the length of a creative day.
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Perry
That's right QB. The annointed get declared righteous, get immortality (not just ever-lasting life) they get to rule with Jesus. All the while you get to prove yourself for another THOUSAND YEARS. - That is according to the WT.
The reality is that no one is declared righteous outside of the new covenant, probably from Pentecost forward. Whether you are a church age believer or a tribulation saint (believer) both are declared righteous by the blood of the lamb .....period. However, both get to avoid a personal judgement.... even though church age believers are the bride of Christ and the tribulation saints enter the kingdom on earth.
The part about avoiding a personal judgment is not to be discounted though. That is the main point. The other stuff is trivial by comparison.
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AndDontCallMeShirley
The reality is
LOL