When conflicts are fuelled by an ideology they also tend to be longer and more difficult to resolve. If you think the Almighty is on your side why compromise? If your enemy is god's enemy there are no contraints.
A key reason why some atheists challenge religious beliefs
by defender of truth 193 Replies latest members adult
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Qcmbr
Apog.
"This notion that science and religion are at opposite ends of a spectrum is a total canard "
Faith based knowledge is the opposite of evidence based scientific discovery - when a believer says that snakes and donkeys talk and prophet's fly to the moon on a horse they have not advanced human knowledge at all but have made up a story. All energy spent chasing magic based promises are theft from what could have been.
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FlyingHighNow
None of us is superior. We're all born wet and naked and we will all die and turn to bones. In between, we each walk a unique journey, but that doesn't make anyone superior or inferior.
PunkOfNice, I respect your viewpoint.
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Qcmbr
What do you mean by superior? Did I miss something where this became about ranking people?
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FlyingHighNow
What do you mean by superior? Did I miss something...?
Looks like you did miss something. My comment was a thought on LisaRose's comment. My post is about people in general with or without belief, with or without religion.
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Qcmbr
Too tenuous for me FHN - sry.
When talking to my mother, a fully brainwashed Mormon, its difficult to approach religious topics because - although it is her entire life and she has little else of current interest to her - she cannot accept any disagreement.
Religious thinking actually forces you to surrender critical capacity.
Mum tries her hardest to 'testify' of her belief at every opportunity but the moment I rebuff her often non-sensical statements ("God taught Adam everything science is discovering today", "There is no evidence Adam knew germ theory") she smiles at me and says something inane like , "I don't want to lose the spirit by arguing" or "You twist words and I don't understand what you mean so I don't want to hear it." It's a perfect defence and carries an implicit offensive statement under it (I don't have the magic spirit and have instead given myself over to Satan ergo I'm evil or I am trying to fool her by twisting words.) Religion has at its premise the concept that people are more or less worthy and should be treated as such. Wheat/tares, sheep/goats, righteous/sinners, blessed/cursed, chosen/damned. The very language of religion is laced with divison and judgment.
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FlyingHighNow
For your mother, all you can do is ask a well thought out rhetorical question here and there. She may die a Mormon. Is she happy? That's more important to me than what she believes. If she isn't hurting anyone, other than being given to testimony about religion, then just let her be. When someone in my non internet circle brings up religion or politics in a pushy way, I ask questions or I figure out a way to change the subject.
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Qcmbr
She isn't happy - this is part of the desire for me to get through to her. She is in a boring and borderline abusive marriage (not physically but in a domineering "I didn't say you could do that" way) and has admitted at least once that it isn't what she wanted (but he was a member and I, as a child, needed a priesthood holder in the home and she as a single mother in a tiny dating pool and so she would take what she could.)
She is unhappy because all bar 1 of her children have left the church so she worries that we have broken the 'celestial family' and won't be 'together forever' and spends a lot of time praying and I suspect crying about it. Having been a member I can safely say that most of it is boring, repetative and not very emotionally or spiritually fulfilling and like addicts waiting for a hit the few times when something moving is said or done keeps teh believers coming back in the hope of another hit - this is not happiness.
Many times she has turned away from opportunities or the basic interactions of life in order to 'maintain her standards' (can't stay in a place where alcohol is being consumed etc.) and as such has become less of a fully realised person. She had a keen intellect and a curiosity about the world (higher level qualifications, managerial experience, eloquent arts performer etc.) and she has been reduced to a person unable to hold a 'worldy' conversation in case words are 'twisted'. I and my family are no longer invited for Sunday lunch - my active sister is. We live 5 minutes away.
The church has broken her spirit. If you asked her if she was happy she'd rapidly paint a smile and tell you she was ...'satisfied'.
It makes me want to cry and rage at the same time.
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cofty
Is she happy? That's more important to me than what she believes. - FHN
This is where you miss the point every time FHN. Being happy under a delusion is not authentic.
What sort of happiness depends on avoiding evidence to the contrary?
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FlyingHighNow
Cofty, happy is relative. You know this.
She isn't happy - this is part of the desire for me to get through to her.
Very understandable, Q.