Colossians 1:15-16 and the word "other"

by yogosans14 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  abbasgreta

  Philippians 2:6-11 is another example. Jesus has been given the Name, (ie Lord) above every name, not every [other] name.

  'Lord' is in this text the Greek equivalent of Yahweh and in the Aramaic Pershitta it is rendered Mari(Lord)Yah. Bending the knee to (Lord) Jesus and confessing that he is Lord is a quote from Isaiah where Yahweh prophecies this about himself. This homage is not given to the used-on-earth name 'Jesus', but 'in the Name OF Jesus, the now glorified and exalted by his father ' Lord'. Following the NWT's own rules about inserting "Jehovah" for Kurios when "Jehovah" appears in a quoted Hebrew text, then the verse should read "every tongue shall confess that Jesus is "Jehovah" to the glory of God the Father". Of course this is impossible for them, so they have to resort to deception, by the use of additions and omissions to uphold their modern-day Aryan heresy.
• 

  Aroq

  designs,

  some of it, but the Dead Sea Scrolls are a two part group. One of that being Biblical and one not. While there are plenty of religious material out there, it is the Bible that is the inspired word of God, the rest is comentary.

  The Qumran Caves Scrolls contain significant religious literature. They consist of two types: “biblical” manuscripts—books found in today’s Hebrew Bible, and “non-biblical” manuscripts—other religious writings circulating during the Second Temple era, often related to the texts now in the Hebrew Bible. Of this second category, some are considered “sectarian” in nature, since they appear to describe the religious beliefs and practices of a specific religious community. http://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/learn-about-the-scrolls/introduction

  Israel's God was the God of gods, meaning no equal as to being the supreme. Some of the writings state that these "gods" worshiped the God of Israel, this can be the limited understanding of "angels" at the time. While YHWH is called God, no other "god" of these terms were called YHWH.

  My statement still stands based upon my knowledge of the Dead Sea Scrolls. If you have further proof to dispute my statement, please provide so that I can read up and understand where you are comming from.
• 

  designs

  Aroq- The specific section I referenced deals with the Hebrew God granting a divine like creature with his powers to do XYZ. Scroll 11Q13

  In other words what do you see Jesus doing that an angel or even a human could not do if granted the power by God.
• 

  Aroq

  You have referenced a non-Biblical text, 11Q13 is written in Hebrew however not considered a Biblical manuscript. This puts it in the catagory of comentary for me. While it may contain names or figures that are found in the Bible, it is not considered part of the Hebrew Bible by the Rabbi's and scholars.

  In other words, it does not sway me away from the Bible and what the Bible speaks of. God can and does according to His will, as described in the Bible. I'm not trying to be blunt about it, but I believe that the Bible is the only inspired word of God and that is what I must rely upon.
• 

  designs

  Aroq- you dodged the question. Can God grant an angel or human his powers.
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  There appears to be rather convincing scriptural evidence that Jesus is God

  1 Jesus is explicitly identified as God in scripture

  2 Jesus is referred to as Jehovah in both old and new testaments

  3 Gods nature and attributes are attributed to Him

  4 Jesus is ascribed exclusive Roles, Names and Titles of God 5. Jesus assumes and exercises the prerogatives or privileges of God
• 

  Aroq

  I dodged nothing designs. I spoke to your evidence and told you why I do not accept it as scripture.

  The lack of authority on your evidence makes it commentary, and commentary is the perspective of the one who writes it.

  My answer was "God can and does according to His will, as described in the Bible." Does this limit God to just what is written in the Bible? No, it is just that is what we have to go by.
• 

  designs

  Aroq- you are still dodging the question-

  That's ok I get you.

  You could have easily drawn on Bible only examples of times when God granted humans and angels his powers to do many things ie Resurrections, miracle cures, controlling weather etc.

  Seeing Jesus as less than the Creeds present him is intimidating.
• 

  designs

  Aroq- Can you see that people making Jesus into God was superfluous just by the Bible's examples alone.
• 

  DogGone

  How do you feel the discussion ending with 1 Corinthians 15:27 plays with this argument from the evangelical perspective?

  When it says "all things" or "every name" is it not evident it is with the execption of God? Or did Paul make a one time evidentiary appeal? Perhaps there are dramatic differences in context or linguistics that I am not getting.