Stagnant JW growth at international convention

by kneehighmiah 52 Replies latest jw friends

  • OneEyedJoe

    TheOldHippie - Thanks!

    Phizzy - My guess is that they're counting the increase of the year-over-year increase in average publishers. The explanation for the continued (reported) growth could be one or both of the following:

    1. There's much more growth in 3rd world countries than we see in US/UK. It's possible (likely even) that the JW population in 1st world countries is declining, and the 3rd world countries are making up for it.

    2. They've got two sets of books, and are fudging the numbers that they report to the R/F.

    I think it's difficult to argue that the former isn't taking place, and the latter wouldn't surprise me one bit - it would just be a drop in the bucket of lies they've told.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley

    OEJ: 2. They've got two sets of books, and are fudging the numbers that they report to the R/F.

    Mark Twain said it best: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

    WT loves statistics.

  • Brainfloss

    Honesty is not a trait associated with the wtbs there numbers are what ever they want them to be. Look around at all of the branch closures and kingdom hall closures and restructuring. Does it look like growth?


  • OneEyedJoe

    Just remembered something I was going to include earlier, on the topic of the generation stuff. For one thing, I do remember even in my childhood the 2034 date being suggested (but, of course, the end couldn't possibly be that far off) based on the parallel with noah. I would not be in the least surprised if they started subtly pushing 2034 as the date of the end in about 10-12 years. This seems especially likely, since by that time the GB will probably be made up of several that weren't around (or aware) in 1975, so the lessons of the past outcomes of date setting will be mostly forgotten.

    As for the change from the 1995 and 2008 'generation' teachings, I'd guess that it was a (failed) attempt to reenergize the R/F. based on the 1995 and 2008 versions, the end could potentially be another thousands of years off (especially with the 2008 flavor, since in that version the "generation" was already nearly 2000 years old). There's only two explanations for the change. Either they're intentionally trying to see what they can get away with (or as has been suggested here, trying to get rid of fence-sitters) or they're trying to recapture the urgency that the organization had pre 1995.

  • respectful_observer

    WT loves statistics

    The WT loves SELECTIVE statistics.

    Number baptised? Great.

    Number disfellowshipped? No way.

    Number of new congregations? Fantastic.

    Number of congregations dissolved? Nope.

    Publish the percentage of college graduates who hold a job in the field of their undergraduate degree? Sure!

    Publish the percentage of those college graduates who hold jobs that require holding a 4-year degree? Um...let's leave that one out.

    Current contribution deficit at the assembly? Definitely.

    Donations made to the Worldwide Work TM or received by the the non-profit Watchtower Bible & Tract Society in some type of typical non-profit annual financial statement? Heck no. What are you, crazy??

  • Cadellin

    It's worth noting, too, that the demographics of those baptized seem to be changing. My teenager went to the Int'l Con in Indianapolis and was shocked by "all the 5-year olds getting baptized" (his words, not mine--I wasn't there.) My teen has no interest in being a JW, just went to make dad happy and is generally indifferent to all of the ins and outs of the religion but this was really troubling to him. He kept saying "They (small children) can't make a decision like that!"

    I'm sure there were young children getting dipped when I did but I don't remember that. I remember mostly older teens and adults.

    Side note--the other thing that he noticed when he wasn't on his phone or dozing was how all the emphasis/worship is now directed to the organization, and how it seemed like Jehovah and Jesus weren't mentioned that much, or at least, not as much as JW.ORG. Again, this is from someone who really doesn't care one way or the other.

  • frankiespeakin

    I'm begining to think that it's the time of the end(for the Watchtower Corporation cult) but not the end of the world that comes millions of years latter when this universe evaporates into 'nothing' from which it came.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley

    "all the 5-year olds getting baptized".... "They (small children) can't make a decision like that!"

    Ironically, when a person becomes an adult and wants to leave the WT, or at least questions some of its teachings, suddenly that person is incapable of doing their own thinking or of making such an important decision all on their own.

    An adult who makes an informed, rational decision based on knowledge and experience will be punished for doing so. A 5 year-old making a lifelong commitment in ignorance is considered by WT to be wise.

  • OneEyedJoe

    ADCMS: I've never thought about it that way, but you're spot on.

    At our convention, there was a 6 or 7 yr old baptized, and my 'in' wife even seemed quite shocked. The norm used to be 11-14 for born-ins, and now it does seem to be edging downward a bit.

  • ShirleyW

    So five and six year old are getting dunked now? Just brings to mind how my uberDub Mom used to mock Christendom and how they baptize infants, saying how can a baby dedicate their life to God? Well they certainly can't, just like a 5 and 6 year old can't

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