I phoned my sister and she told me that yesterday the two elders visited her again. She lives in a latin country (as I do). And as I shown before, just two weeks ago, these elders visited my sister because she is not attending the meetings. She does not want to attend cause she currently knows that this is a false religion. She was baptized in 1975.
Two weeks ago she showed to the elders how absurd is the doctrine of blood fractions as well as those flip flops on health issues (as organ transplants, for instance). I wrote about that discussion in this post:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/281372/1/Elders-answer-questions-about-the-changes-of-the-blood-ban#.U8x7XHLyOPs
But yesterday, the elders visited my sister again, but she had previously prepared some quotes from the Finished Mystery. She told them that she did some research and found the following ( in the Spanish version) :
"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. (Watchtower 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them')
So, she told to the elders that she noted that in this Watchtower's article was mentioned the book entitled The Finished Mystery. It means that the distribution of this book was one of the preaching works in which the Bible Students were doing a prophetic work. Then she quoted the following Watchtower's paragraph, in which this book was regarded as a test of loyalty:
"Flashes of Light -- Great and Small (Part 2)
The Bible book of Revelation has intrigued Christians from early times. It provides a fine example of how the light of truth grows ever brighter. In 1917, Jehovah's people published an explanation of Revelation in the book The Finished Mystery. It fearlessly exposed Christendom's religious and political leaders, but many of its explanations were borrowed from various sources. Still, The Finished Mystery served to test the Bible Students' loyalty to the visible channel Jehovah was using." (The Watchtower, May 15, 1995, p. 21)
So, she asked them if they knew about the content of this book. They said : "we have never read it". So, she told them that she has the 1918 eidtion scanned in pdf format, and she had to translate some portions into Spanish. Then she shared with them following quotes:
Have you enjoyed this work so far? Are you convinced it is of the Lord-- prepared under His guidance? Have you carefully and prayerfully read the comments on Rev. 7:1? Then brace yourself for the truth that it is evidently God's purpose soon to allow the minds of many of His little ones to become an open battle ground, upon which the fallen angels shall be judged, and the manner in which we meet the tests will prove our worthiness of crowns at the same time that it proves these disobedient spirits unworthy of life on any plane. This is something with which some but not many are yet familiar.... without actual experience it is quite impossible to conceive of the intensity of such struggles.... The base of the brain is seized as in a vise. Interpretations of Scripture, ingenious, but misleading beyond description, are projected into the mind as water might be projected through a hose. Visions may be tried, wonderful illuminations of the mind as by a soft but glorious greenish or yellowish haze. Seductive suggestions may be made, based on circumstances of the environment. Offers of inspiration may be made. The privilege of sleep may be taken away for days at a stretch. All this with the object of forcing the unfortunate into at least a temporary insanity.... the mind may be flooded with thoughts that are vile beyond description. THEN REMEMBER THE VOW. (The Finished Mystery pages 126,127)
“It seems conclusive that the hour of Nominal Zion's travail is fixed for the Passover of 1918....At that time there is every reason to believe the fallen angels will Invade the minds of many of the Nominal Church people, driving them to exceedingly unwise conduct and leading to their destruction at the hands of the enraged masses, who will later be dragged to the same fate.(The Finished Mystery, page 128)
"Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of 'Christianity'."( The Finished Mystery, page 485)
Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920....Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy. ( The Finished Mystery, page 258)
So, after reading them the above quotes, my sister asked them: "How can the Watchtower affirm that the Bible Students were doing a prophetic work by distributing a book containing false prophecies "prepared under the Lord's guidance"? The elders answered the following:
"Sister, we are noticing that you have too much stress for these past publications. You demand too much perfection for the organization. Firstly, these were not false prophets, they were sincere christians who wished the end of this system of things, so their desire led them to set some wrong dates. Secondly, in certain sense, these predictions were true, because Babylon the Great fell in 1919."
So my sister said that she knew that this book was a stumbling block for many Bible Students who were disappointed for its content, then many of them left the Society. But, contradictorily, they were regarded as The Evil Slave and apostates. Then the elders answered her:
"Sister, those who left the Society went back to the false religion, to the churches of Babylon the Great. "
My sister disagreed, and was again very disappointed by the answers of the elders. She noted that they tried to defend the indefensible. The elders had to leave her house, but they told her that they will come back to continue the discussion and invited her to the Convention. Nevertheless, they took notes on the references given by my sister.
I suspect that, instead of disfellowshipping her, the elders are trying to learn about "apostate arguments" to report them to the Circuit Overseer. Who knows??? Whatever, they are ready to defend even the most ridiculous doctrine of the GB.
My sister said to me: "How difficult is for them to admit that they are in a false religion"
The two elders visited my sister again
by opusdei1972 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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opusdei1972
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Ding
I have a friend who had a very similar experience translating old WTs to elders who didn't know English.
Different language... same result...
Of course, their initial reaction is going to be to defend the organization.
Despite their public reaction, the ones with integrity will be greatly troubled by it in the days to come.
The organization men will stick with the borg no matter what.
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The Searcher
Unless your sister doesn't care what happens to her, tell her to decline all future invitations to meet with the Elders, because they are only out to get her as an "apostate" - simply because she is thinking for herself!
She will never teach THEM anything, because they will close their eyes and ears to the truth.
Warn her loudly & clearly - they have her in their sights!
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opusdei1972
Ding I doubt that the 1918 edition of The Finished Mystery was translated into Spanish. My sister told to the Elders that they should read for themselves the Finished Mystery so as to verify how bizarre was its content. But they said that it would be hard to find this book, because many kingdom halls are giving away their old literature. However, I even doubt that this book came to South America.
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opusdei1972
The Searcher : Don`t worry, my sister and I were the only members of my family who kept attending the meetings as baptized publishers. After I discovered the Flip Flops of many teachings I phoned for many days to my sister so as to analyze the past doctrines of the Watchtower. So, we concluded that the Society was a false religion. My sister decided to not attend the meetings anymore. Some sisters think that I am the apostate who sowed doubts in her, and others have visited her to tell her that they love her and they will never regard her as an apostate. But my sister is not worry about what the elders can do.
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Gentledawn
"Sister, we are noticing that you have too much stress for these past publications. You demand too much perfection for the organization. Firstly, these were not false prophets, they were sincere christians who wished the end of this system of things, so their desire led them to set some wrong dates. Secondly, in certain sense, these predictions were true, because Babylon the Great fell in 1919."
Deuteronomy 18:20 - "20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.” "
And what proof do they (the visiting elders) offer that "babylon fell" in 1919? Seriously. The bible students continued to celebrate christmas and all manner of things, all with "god's approval" allegedly hanging over their heads like a halo, until the latter half of the 1920s.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/celebrations.php
Watchtower followers stopped celebrating Christmas from 1928.
"What caused the Bible Students to stop celebrating Christmas? Richard H. Barber gave this answer: "I was asked to give an hour talk over a [radio] hookup on the subject of Christmas. It was given December 12, 1928, and published in The Golden Age #241 and again a year later in #268. That talk pointed out the pagan origin of Christmas. After that, the brothers at Bethel never celebrated Christmas again."
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"Sister, those who left the Society went back to the false religion, to the churches of Babylon the Great. "
Again, proof? They need to name some names. In fact, they are implying that ALL went back to "false churches". Name the names and where they went. They made the assertion as fact. The burden of proof is on them to prove the statement as factual.
They (the elders) make sweeping statements without a single ounce of evidence to back up what they say. That is a fact.
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Tell her to stop allowing these cultists into her home or even in her presence. The next set of statements from them will be in the form of questions, such as "do you believe the governing body/watchower society are spokesmen/god's channel on earth today?"
If she does not answer "yes" to any of these sorts of statement questions, she will be disfellowshipped and shunned. She needs to shake the dust off her feet at them and never talk to them again.
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opusdei1972
Gentledawn My sister told me that she quoted Deuteronomy 18:20, but the Elders were not concerned about it.
I have to say that I sent an email to one of these elders and his wife (one year ago), in which I wrote that I had discovered the absurd stuff about the blood fractions. The elder`s wife answered me that I am like Judas, an apostate, and that I am probably celebrating birthdays and christmas like any vulgar wordly person. She asked me for not sending to her more emails due to my apostate thinking and because I am confusing my sister as a demon. She even wrote me that I can be destroyed in Armaggedon, but she doesn`t wish it for my sister.
May be in the next visit, the elders will be instructed to ask to my sister if she believes that the GB is the Channel of God, though it is clear that she has implicitly denied it.
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redvip2000
Firstly, these were not false prophets, they were sincere christians who wished the end of this system of things, so their desire led them to set some wrong dates
So who exactly was guiding these "sincere Christians" in writing these things? They claimed it was Jehovah - is this true?
In fact, hasn't the Watchtower society always claimed throughout the years that everything it teaches has the approval of Jehovah , despite never being accurate? What conclusions can we take from this, about the teachings of the Watchtower today? How reliable are they in light of their history?
Food for thought...
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kneehighmiah
I doubt they will DF her. She doesn't go to the meetings. The CO will just tell the elders to leave her alone.
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QC
Opus: But my sister is not worry about what the elders can do.
Opus,
Those elders have one intention: collect enough evidence to make a PUBLIC disfellowship example of your sister. They're not visiting your sister to be edified in any way.
Notes taken will be part of their announcement! Does she want to be used in this way?
Make sure she understands where this is headed.