I got my mother to say animals evolved !

by cookiemaster 14 Replies latest jw experiences

  • cookiemaster

    I wanted to share with you guys the argument I had today with my mother. I've been away last week in a far away city for my college exams. I've been staying at a friend, a JW who, just like me, is actually an atheist and doesn't believe a word the WT says and knows it's a bullshit cult but because of his family and friends he still stays in. He hasn't been to the KH for about three months now. So, of course we didn't go to the Sunday meeting. Instead we went to have fun with a Polish and a Hong Kong chick from our college and got drunk,lol.

    Today my mother asked if we went to the hall on Sunday. Knowing she has many friends at that Hall and she would immediately find out if I was lying I admitted that I wasnt'. She seemed a little upset about it and asked me why. I said I didn't have a suit with me and I don't like going in jeans and casual clothes at the hall because everyone would look funny at me. She asked why I haven't found a way to go, and just kept insisting. I got a little angry and said I didn't go because I don't like any of the brothers at the hall and I actually despise most for being back-stabbing snakes.

    Anyway, she makes a lot of claims about how Jokehova won't give me any blessings now, won't listen to my prayers and a lot of other illogical stuff. I said there's no proof Jokehovah currently intereferes in the world with blessings and answering prayers. That the world wouldn't make sense if he did. I asked her about all the JW's that had very bad things happen to them in field circus, coming from conventions, etc. She gets a little angry and says I have no faith and I'll get killed at Armagheddon and cites me some verses about Jah killing those who don't obey and question him.

    I then said, he must be a big dictator (we live in an ex-communist country so she understands this analogy all too well). He doesn't really give me or others a choice, he just says, do as I command or die. Of course she now gets even more angry and threatens me with physical harm if I keep talking about Jah that way(lololol). She says Jah let's us all chose whether to follow and love him or not. I told her it's about as much of a choice as putting a gun to a man's head and saying do exactly as I tell you or die. That stirred things up but as we we're arguing I could see her hesistate and actually think about what I said.

    However, she didn't give up and proceeded saying Jah is great and awesome for giving us this perfect world and that the only alternative is heading to the imoral, degraded world filled with wicked people. That the world he created originally was filled with peace and everything on Earth lived to serve and benefit humans, that it was a world without violence. Then I ask, how come there are predators? What about the animals that are absolute killing machines? Creatures that have huge claws, jaws, canines, poison, vision that tracks prey, feel blood from way away, all with the purpose of being better at killing. How can that be explained? Those creatures have their entire existence centered around hunting and killing.

    She said Jokehova didn't make them that way. He made them perfect, peaceful companions for humans. But then I asked how did they get this way? She blurted our mumbling: "Well... I don't know... Maybe they evolved or something". What? Evolved? Coming from a person who was a witness since the early 70's? I didn't continue the argument because she was hesistant to say anything and appeared to be thinking. To be honest, I never, ever questioned "the truth" in front of her before, I was just showing apathy. That's why I expected a harsh reaction. Calling the elders or something, but no. An hour later she was talking like we didn't even argue. In a good mood even.

  • Bob_NC

    Excellent. Your mom is thinking. With a few words you made the whole thing sound ridiculous.

    By the way...the Bible does speak about the wild beasts of field as distinct from domestic animals. The Bible admits? Must be that Jehovah made them wild beasts.

  • cookiemaster

    @Bob_NC Hahah, exactly! How can this be? This invalides the WT utopia of a paradise were we cuddle with tigers and lions. Did Jehovah create animals whose entire existence is centered around violence? That doesn't seem very loving of him. Did they change on their own? If they evolved this way then what's to say that not every creature has evolved and the theory of evolution is correct? The questions go on and on and either way you take it, the WT utopian propaganda doesn't seem to make sense, even to dubs.

  • TG-Jasper

    Cookiemaster, this is great!

    My grandfather tried to get a sensible answer out of my mother about the whole evolution vs creation thing (my grandparents are non-jw). He asked "what about animals adapting to their surroundings". She said "yes they can adapt, but that's not the same as evolution".

    My grandparents can't understand what went wrong. They are both well-educated people and so are both of my uncles. My mother left home at 16 and went to work on sheep and cattle stations right up the northwest of australia to be close to nature or god. Then she met the jws and joined up with them, and now she refuses all logical reasoning.

  • Focus

    Well done.

    Step by painful step, opening the closed mind...

    I don't know her but the following is usually true:

    At one level, she already knows. She is fighting desperately to cling on to what she has and therefore not have to accept that she has been the victim of a gigantic hoax perpetrated by an evil, malevolent, sociopathic, conscienceless MLM publishing whore.

    Keep at it.



    ("Evolved" Class)

  • Vidiot

    Focus - "At one level, she already knows. She is fighting desperately to cling on to what she has..."

    I get that vibe from my Mom, once in a while. My faded cousin thinks she wouldn't even shun me if I DA'd.

  • Pacopoolio

    Jehovah's Witnesses teach that micro-evolution happens (animals gradually evolving) but not macro-evolution (they still stay in their specific "kinds").

    This, as anyone that knows anything about evolution knows, is stupid. It's basically just someone ignoring the amount of time this has been happening, and drift, as animals separate, how this will cause them to be incompatable over those amounts of times (at the least).

    However, sadly, this wasn't really a victory for you, as it fits inside JW theology. "God made the animals to be peaceful, then they started killing everyone when the world became imperfect" is a standard statement from them. Saying "they evolved to do so" is not a jump, as they believe that animals change over time "within their species."

  • Vidiot

    Pacopoolio - "Jehovah's Witnesses teach that micro-evolution happens (animals gradually evolving)..."

    No, they don't.

    Some individual JWs might privately concede that it happens, but the WTS will never acknowledge it publicly.

    Pacopoolio - "Saying 'they evolved to do so' is not a jump, as they believe that animals change over time 'within their species'."

    Kinda hard not to, considering that the Noah story involves a floating box that could only hold 30,000 species at the most, and there's millions of species on Earth today.

  • snare&racket

    Great reasoning, I use the same angle when discussing disease i.e. who designed the cancers, the diseases?

    They are tempted to say satan but they know that is not biblical and gives satan creative powers, so it bakes their noodle

    Good work x

  • Apognophos

    No, they don't.

    Some individual JWs might privately concede that it happens, but the WTS will never acknowledge it publicly.

    I'm pretty sure the Society has discussed the term "microevolution" and suggested that this is just the God-given ability to adapt. And they openly state that animals "adapted" into various species from the few that were on the ark. So they are basically accepting "microevolution". What they do not believe in is the development of new features, new organs, things of that nature, which they call "macroevolution".

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