Germany loses 22 congregations and 41 KHs in 3 years (2011-2014) (page 2)

dby

Here is Tucson, Old KH's turn into ugly houses

I would say the main issue for Germany is aging JW population. I remember they were geriatric KH back 20 years so maybe there was a die off. I am not sure on Poland because its demographic is much younger (average age seems to be around 38, little less than in CZ), but I would assume that Polish society became much secular and making JW field service difficult.

Crazyguy

I'm thinking the old ones dying off is going to really hurt the org. TTaTT is also hurting almost all countries with high internet access are showing either no growth or very little. Pretty soon they will have to lie about the number like they did about needing money for halls..

InquiryMan

interestingly, the German branch maintains a huge national website. Also Austria and Russia maintains such ones.. does anyone know of any other countries having it? Finland used to have one and also France.

They also list their religious celebrations/holidays.

Apart from memorial and assemblies, this is listed:

Weitere religiös-feierliche Handlungen

Weitere religiös-feierliche Handlungen bei Jehovas Zeugen, die in der Regel von einem Ältesten der Religionsgemeinschaft vorgenommen werden, sind beispielsweise:

Der Gottesdienst nach einer Eheschließung (Here they use the word commonly used by churches in Christendom) Wedding
Das Begräbnis (Gedenkansprache, Trauerrede) Funeral
Die heilige Taufhandlung (the holy act of baptism)
Die Weihung (Widmung) von religiösen Gebäuden (dedication/inaugeration of religious buildings)

snare&racket

And so it begins......

Fernando

(Proverbs 25:25) . . .As cold water upon a tired soul, so is a good report from a distant land.

(Revelation 18:10) . . .‘Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!’

(Revelation 18:21) . . .And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.

Ocean1111

If we look at the complex global Bethel system, we understand a contraction can take place with an expansion in even regional terms. Thus Bethel can sell JWs the bare minimum 2% growth rate, but actually be covering up even a 5% contraction loss rate, and in certain places it will still be growing as part of how the system dynamic plays out.

In reality there is no justification of the Bethel begging and stealing money from the congreagtions, they do not have the real growth to require such an outlay, in fact they are probably actually in contraction and performing a final liquidation operation before the corporate transformation.

There are many ominous red flags from Bethel in the last couple years, like the billion in asset liquidation and reduction of global Bethel by maybe nearing 50%. It's more likely they are sucking every last drop of liquid assets out of the place, positioning the org for derivatives over exposure, and planning to vacate with those billions leaving duped JWs holding an emty bag, even losing their individual Kingdom halls within two years of corporate ground zero of Bethel.

Most JWs and most of their critics go with the designed first reaction, which is the first distraction, and none of those people will figure out what just happened for probably 3 to 5 years. Bethel will take atleast two years to be fully deconstructed and recieved into control of other legal entities to oversee the rest of the process that would play out another 5 years minimum.

In fact an operation this well done, must be planned and carried out by experts of subversion and confidence gaming, not the average hypocrite Christian, they are just the marks, and aids of the process in my opinion, that is what I feel is really going on, a corporate super-coup to finish off the JW organization for good, a planned affair, and a very profitable one at that, hugely profitable.

jwfacts

Ocean11 - Why would they want to do that? They have 8 million members. If they can convince them to donate just $10 each a month, that is almost $1 billion in revenue they can continue to get each year. Not to mention the free labour to keep building them more properties. I cannot see why they would want to willingly wind things up.

Sure, the doctrines are getting dated. But they can slowly make them main stream. There are other religions that are growing, and JWs can continue to as well for quite a few more decades if they could make the right changes. But even if they don't, and they lost half the members, they can still raise half a billion tax free dollars a year. Not many companies globally can make that sort of claim.

TTATTelder

I think the determining factor is how greedy the controlling interests are in the short term. Betting on men not being greedy is a risky bet.

I could see the Ocean1111 scenario playing out. I hope it does, selfishly for my sake. The motivation there of course is taking the money and running. If for instance they are already fudging numbers and know the ship is sinking, this would make sense.

OTOH, I can see them splitting the difference (hedging their bets) and seeing what they can get away with over the long haul. Of course they will be stockpiling money and making money grabs all along the way.

Either scenario will see this Germany situation playing out in all the developed countries. We will see (as discussed many times on this forum) KH's closed and sold. Congregations consolidated. Property flips. High end properties sold off and replacement halls built in the less expensive growing areas. Yada yada.

Maybe we can determine long range objectives by watching how many long term projects are started. Headquarters doesn't count. That is for them.

It will be long and drug out either way. It will be interesting to watch, though.

-TE

88JM

See the wonderous exp... oh never mind.

Germany loses 22 congregations and 41 KHs in 3 years (2011-2014)

dby

kaik