Well, its obvious if you know anything about the way the NT was created, and the progression from the simple gospel of Mark to the ultimate complex gospel of John, and the fact that Christianity is hero worship of the man Jesus, and that the meaning of Jesus' death was created by Paul- after the event. Jesus had a mesage for those 1st century believers- what they should do at that moment- that had nothing to do with waiting until he was dead.
Religion vs the gospel
by Fernando 45 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Perry
the fact that Christianity is hero worship of the man Jesus
You say that like it is a negative. Christians have been unashamedly declaring their worship of the man Jesus for 2000 years. He is the ultimate hero of the human race. He publically raised people from the dead and even rose from the dead himself after 3 days. He did nothing in secret. He PROVED he held to very power of life itself.
So dramatic was the events surrounding his life we count time before and after his life. Of course, as the only begotten of God his manhood was irrevocably fused with the essence of God himself. Since God is omnipresent and cannot be divided, he is fully God and fully man. He is the ultimate hero.
Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.” Why? Because the Son of God is God who can receive worship, He is God in the flesh.
Jesus said, “that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him” (John 5:23) We this example all through the Scripture.
Matthew 15:25: “Then she worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.”
“When Jesus walked on the water and made the wind and waves cease, they worshipped Him, saying, truly thou art the Son of God.” (Matthew 14:33). Notice the equating of being the Son of God elicits their worship
Again to equate him as the only Son of God made him equal with the Father and deserving of our worship. This is made clear in John 9:35-38. Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?” He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.”
When he was resurrected Matthew 28:17: “And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.” Matthew 28:9: “And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, rejoice. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.”
Luke 24:51-53: “Now it came to pass, while He blessed them, that He was parted from them and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped Him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God. Amen.” And so the church has always worshipped the Son of God the same as they worship the Father. All the apostles worshipped God, the Son of God, and taught the church to do the same.
We see Peter in Acts 10:25-27 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together.
Cornelius fell at Peter's feet and worshipped. Peter says to him Acts 10:26 I am a man. Obviously this is worship not obeisance (as the Jehovah Witnesses hold to) or there would not be the response of his human nature. Peter the apostle refused worship because he worshiped the true God and knew he, himself, was only a man. Peter could not have worshipped Jesus unless he was more than a man.
Of course we need to understand that Scripture does not have to say worship for one to be worshipping. The Bible teaches that Jesus was not only worshipped but also called God by Thomas. In Jn.20:28 after Jesus tells Thomas who doubted to put his fingers in the holes made by the crucifixion, Thomas states “My Lord my God” (in the Greek literally translated The Lord of me the God of me). Instead of being corrected or rebuked for this statement (which would be blasphemy if false), he is commended and blessed, something no true prophet would do unless it was correct.
Deut 18:20 'But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.” Here Jesus commended Thomas, if it was false'
In the Old Testament Psalm 86:9: “All nations whom You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, and shall glorify Your name.” Psalm 22:27-28: “…and all the families of the nations shall worship before You. For the kingdom is the LORD'S, and He rules over the nations.”
Hebrews 1:6-8 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flame of fire.’ But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of your kingdom.” Angels are commanded by God the Father to worship the son. In both Deuteronomy 32::43 and Psalm 97:7 in the Septuagint version it speak of angels worshiping the Son. Angels worship the Son because they are subordinate to Him, he is then superior to them. These are good angels. It would be blasphemy for an angel to worship anyone but God. God the Father is speaking to the Son after his resurrection telling the angels to worship the Son. Good angels worship only God. Here is the Father himself instructing the angels to worship the Son.
Paul the apostle writes Philippians 2:9-11: “Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” To have every knee of every created thing bow to the Son is to worship. We see this taking place to God and the lamb in heaven to those who have already willingly bowed their knee to them. Revelation 5:12-14 saying with a loud voice: “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom, and strength and honor and glory and blessing!” And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!” Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.
In Revelation 4:10-11: the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, … saying: “You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created.” (This is referring to the Son in Collosians1:15-17 where all things were created through Him and For Him and consist in Him).
Who is this who lives forever? He is the one called the First and the Last. Revelation 1:18: “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen.”
If Jesus is not God, then he would not accept worship nor would the Bible allow this to be insinuated. If he is not God neither can He be our Savior.
If He is God, then He surely is Lord (in Greek) which is equal to the Old Testament Hebrew of the name Yahweh and deserves our worship just as it is written.
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Fernando
For our family religion is about middlemen, whereas the gospel is about dealing direct.
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Laika
Hey Fernando, do you think anyone who attends a church denomination is relying on a middle man? I think that would be a bit unfair.
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designs
Since Jesus died and did not bring peace he failed as the Jewish Messiah.
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James Brown
Perry you have posted a good scriptural argument/proof for the trinity.
I think JW's dont get the trinity because they dont read their bibles cover to cover.
They read it piece meal to come to their pre concieved conclusions.
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designs
JB- you're tongue in cheek here aren't you...
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James Brown
Designs.
I try to find a way to make Jesus work for me.
Believing in Jesus is comforting.
I am a ware of the pros and cons.
I ask myself was I put here to figure out that there is no God and live according to that belief?
Or was I put here to have the best life I posibly can and live according to that belief?
I think to have the best life I posibly can is the ticket for me.
And in my life that includes Jesus.
It doesnt cost me any money.
And it is the way I make sense of things.
I do enjoy reading the atheist arguments and I could easily be an atheist.
But at the end of the day the end of the week, I choose Jesus.
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James Brown
Another point that pops in my head.
When I was a JW. I was a weirdo.
I belonged to a weirdo religion that went against everything, it went against the grain.
I didnt like that.
Where I live in the USA
In Florida the south.
People believe in the bible and Jesus.
31 years as a JW was enough going against the grain and being a weiirdo for me.
The above is not the only reason, I believe in Jesus.
But is is one of many.
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designs
JB- you made the point JWs don't believe the trinity because they don't read their Bible's cover to cover.
Nothing in the Jewish Bible supports the trinity, nada, ziltch. So it begs the questions on the NT writers and subsequent Bishops for inventing a different belief system and why. The JWs (us formerly) were not wrong on that point).
If you've found something you relate to with Jesus its your business and your life and all the beat. In my 65th year of life I can do without him or god and surprisingly be a pretty descent person.