by D_Rolling_Kearney 59 Replies latest watchtower bible
CS: It seems that if a religion is going to claim any sort of legitimacy, it must have these gifts.
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I agree with that statement.
So how do you get around the fact that, just like WT, the Mormons don't have these "gifts" either?
Or, is your lack simply superior to the WT's lack?
I didn't see Majic Underwear mentioned in the article.
Rub a Dub
Cold Steel:
And what's so "rich" about it? We claim both prophecy and revelation, just as in the ancient church. It seems that if a religion is going to claim any sort of legitimacy, it must have these gifts. The Jehovah's Witnesses just assumed to be God's represented Kingdom on Earth. But how does that work? How do they know God chose them in 1919 (or whenever)? Or that Jesus returned "invisibly"?
I'm interested in seeing a list of fulfilled prophecy of the Mormon church.
! In fact, we have much more in common with first century Christianity than any other church I'm aware of.
Lol, the JWs say that too. Show me where the first century Christians wore special under garments with symbols on them, or didn't allow alcohol. Remember Jesus's first miracle? Show me where the first Christians got baptized for dead relatives. Show me the scripture in the bible that talks about the golden tablets.
d what's so "rich" about it? We claim both prophecy and revelation, just as in the ancient church. It seems that if a religion is going to claim any sort of legitimacy, it must have these gifts. The Jehovah's Witnesses just assumed to be God's represented Kingdom on Earth. But how does that work? How do they know God chose them in 1919 (or whenever)? Or that Jesus returned "invisibly"?
Anybody can claim anything, but it's another thing to actually do it. If you don't see the irony if a Mormon criticising the JWs for claiming the exact same thing (special knowledge about God) the Mormons do, then it's impossible to explain it too you. You think your religion is so much different and better, but it's not, it's just not, at least to me.
Also, Mormonism has almost nothing in common with the JWs...I fail to see why people keep trying to link it. Are we a "cult"? Yes. Was early Christianity a cult? Absolutely! In fact, we have much more in common with first century Christianity than any other church I'm aware of.
We keep linking it because the similarities are there. I know a few former Mormons, we have a lot in common. The point is, you don't see it because you are so determined to come here and tell us how much better your religion is, and how stupid the Jehovah's Witnesses are that you don't see the forest for the trees. You have giant blinders on when it comes to your own faith. You are so primed to jump in and defend it, but have you looked at it with a critical eye yourself? Have you been to the ex Mormon sites, and really looked and considered what their arguments are? I wish I had done the same when I was a JW, it would have saved me many wasted years, but of course, I was in a cult and taught to avoid so called "apostate" sites. I am sure your church says the same.
Are we a "cult"? Yes. Was early Christianity a cult? Absolutely! In fact, we have much more in common with first century Christianity than any other church I'm aware of.
At least you admit you are in a cult. Psssttt, it's not a good thing. It could be argued that Christianity itself is a cult, but here are the differences to me: You teach that salvation is only through the Mormon flavor of Christianity, Christianity teaches it is through Jesus Christ. Your church controls your time through many requirements missions, family study night and other activities. You discourage your members from reading anti Mormon literature You must obey the church leaders, to disagree with church leadership is to disagree with God. You have many different, secretive rituals, that set you apart from mainstream Christianity, with no biblical basis.
From an ex Mormon site:
I need to start by saying Thank you!! truly with all of my heart for being so forthright and diligent in proving to my wonderful wife and I how un-true the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints truly is. It is because of each of you that prompted me to search the Church History Records and Doctrine and find out for myself why and who the church really is and what it is not
More :
It took all of 2 weeks to go from active, temple-attending, tithing payer to having lost my testimony completely and gaining insight into church history that infuriates and disgusts me.
and more
I have been so naive about the church my entire life. I feel sick to my stomach reading about the church history, temple practices, etc. I've always felt bad for people raised into FLDS/Amish/cult situations, and now I feel like I should go cry and pat myself on the back because I'm one of them
Except for the terms, these could be written by any ex JW. I am not trying to rag on the Mormons, I really don't care what you believe, but you can see from my point of view that you are attempting to enlist people who just left a destructive religion to join another version of it. I think the chances of it happening are non existent, but it still sets my teeth on edge. Whether you believe in golden tablets or magical underwear is immaterial. I guess I would have a little more tolerance if you were an ex JW Mormon, but you are not.
I'm not looking to convert anyone, just clear up misconceptions. It looks like you could all benefit.
How exactly will we benefit?
If you look at both religions in a doctrinal way then it's obvious that they have many differences (just as all denominations have) and if the agenda is to create clear water to justify why one is superior than the other in this or that then it can be presented as such. The opposite is also true, we can find common themes, ideas and techniques that both share - when Mormon missionaries are proselyting they are trained to build upon 'common beliefs'. In shared experience is understanding forged. I will forever be in debt to the people on this board for opening my eyes to the common experiences, for deconstructing the 'them' and 'us' mentality that religion requires and fosters. When a JW doubts they must confront the same fears and questions that a Mormon (or any religionist) does. All people are afraid to lose family and/or friends,worry they are wrong and have angered the heavens, find it emotionally exhausting to fight against a culture they are embedded in and all have to come to terms with redefining who they are when for so long they allowed others to do that for them.
When I was doubting it was watching others doubt that gave me the courage to reject a god who had taken over my every waking thought. Those of us who made it out the other side are now survivors with joint stories trying our best to help those still caught in the mental and physical nets of religion. It doesnt matter who the slave owner was or what make of leg irons they used - slavery still tastes the same.
Not going to get into doctrinal issues , but as a member of the Church of England (Anglican ) I have actually read some Mormon publications when a neighbour was studying to become a Mormon . NOw I think that this had a lot to do with the fact that she was a single mom and the two missionary guys were young and good looking , as noted elsewhere American Mormons all seem to be good looking .
Anyhows I was curious and asked to borrow some of her study literature . It was so garbled and clearly written in cult speak that I could not make out a lot of it , but what I did understand did not sound anything like the Early Church to me . Also I was uncomfortable with the fact that two men were regularly calling on a vunerable young woman , is Mormonism male dominated like Watchtower ?
When you refute accusations made against the Mormon church do you do independant research or do you only go to official Mormom archives ? This is how WT pulls the wool over the eyes of it's members by treating them like mushrooms ( you know , kept in dark and fed on manure , polite version cus I is a lady ).
Jan
Mormonism is , like all Abrahamic religions, patriarchal. Unlike other religions Mormonism reinforces the male dominance by redefining god as an exalted man married to one or more exalted but scripturally silent women. The Priesthood , the authority to act for and on behalf of god and expressed by ritual, has settled into a male preserve ( though the early church - meaning its members - experimented with female Priesthood expression vestiges of which are preserved in the temple wording and ritual.) All religion is written in gobbleydegook (e.g. Nicene creed!) and mormon pamphlets are no exception. What you read is the result of a very careful 'correlated' message which presents 'milk before meat'. It is impossible to make a rational evaluation of Mormonism via its published proselyting material. This is acknowledged and encouraged by the church which insists that conversion is a spiritual (I.e. emotional) experience not requiring all the facts.
The missionaries are breaking mission rules if they visit a single lady and are male and vice versa without a chaperone. Missionary work is no different to any other high pressure sale scenario. Those missionaries have a quota, they are certain you need their product and they will use every means their 19 year old morality will stretch to to make the sale. They are as emotionally and psychologically trapped as they hope you will be and by and large they love what they are doing.
thanks Qcmbr . I notice that the original poster has not answered my question about independant research . Are Mormons discouraged from reading anything apart from official publications as are JWs ?
Jan
