Are you complicit if you stay in?

by mrhhome 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • Red Piller
    Red Piller

    I'm in - don't feel the least bit guilty. I did not ask for these circumstances, as a born-in.

    And to awake to TTATT in mid-life creates complex scenarios that I have to carefully manage.

    To engage in black and white thinking is to behave in a very similar fashion to WT beliefs. Everyone here has there own circumstance: married and financial status, unique family and extended family, age, career, education and personality, health, mental health etc....None of which we are privy too.

    We usually have very little information by which we can judge or evaluate others choices. Personally, I won't try.

  • mrhhome

    As I stated in the beginning, I am completely sympathetic to the dilemma many of you face.

    At the same time, I find myself wondering. How many people knew my wife's story, thought that the whole situation was BS, and was never willing to take a stand for her? How many people in the organization think my situation is BS but leave me to fight this battle alone? How many more people are going to experience this BS given that the elders know that they will go unchallenged?

    My objective is to prevent this nonsense in the future, and if that means putting pressure on those who know TATT but are still in the organization, so be it.

  • nancy drew
    nancy drew

    Each one has to deal with their own situation that being said for me and my own integrity as soon as i realized it wasn't the truth i had to walk away whatever the cost because to stay was to be complicit in a lie and i will not knock on someone's door and mislead them purposely. I do believe that they are holding people's family hostage hoping to keep people doing their will and i wish everyone would say screw you and walk out because they only have power because people stay.

    I admit it was a part of my life and I remain curious about it only because I wish for it's demise. There's many people in the org that I wish would leave because I liked them and I think they were there because they truly wanted a better world but the Jw vision is not the answer and it isn't mentally healthy for anyone and to raise your children in it knowing it isn't the truth can't be a good thing.

    Leaving is initally very strange and uncomfortable but after awhile even if you don't have any anwers to life's questions it's a new day and who knows what might happen.

  • OneEyedJoe

    How many people in the organization think my situation is BS but leave me to fight this battle alone?

    While I am still 'in' despite knowing TTATT, not leaving others to fight the battle alone is a big reason why I'm here. I suspect this is the case for many here. You're not alone, and your situation is unfortuante, but I think some of your anger may be misplaced. I'm not staying in for friends or family, I'm staying in because I think that's my best chance to get my wife out. She's going to take a while, but if I'm going to get her out, I feel my chances are improved if she doesn't automatically mistrust anything I say about the org. I can leave at any time, but once I leave I can't go back, so I need to exhaust all the options that rely on my being 'in' before leaving.

    That said, any ill treatment by anyone (especially the elders) does not go unchritisized by me. If I get booted for pointing out a lack of love, I can live with that (especially since it will only make my point for me). However, what you need to understand is that a bunch of us standing up and leaving all at once would likely benefit a very small portion of those that are still in. That would only play into the persecution complex and strengthen their resolve. Apostates leaving also plays into their ego, as it's just another person that they can elevate themselves above and make a show of how much they always disliked that person. When someone DA's the rest of the congregation doesn't think "well he was always a smart guy, maybe he's right!" they think "he was always a smart guy - it just goes to show that no one is safe from satan the devil. He must've let his ego get puffed up because he thought he was smarter than us"

    Since you've never been a JW, and presumably never been in any cult, you can easily be forgiven for thinking that those still in are complicit, but the reality is much more complex than it appears (which is why cults are so dangerous and are able to grow). If you haven't already, look up some of the stuff on Steve Hassan's website (, especially the videos on the strategic interactive approach. That will be helpful to you in your efforts to help your wife to leave. Another thread that you might find useful is here:

    You're angry, and rightfully so, but I suggest that you allow yourself to vent briefly, then re-focus not on hypotheticals and shoulda/woulda/coulda, but on your current situation. After a while speculation on what could've prevented it, or assigning blame to faceless masses is useless. Hopefully the information I've posted will be helpful, and I suspect it will be far more helpful to you than if I DA'd tomorrow.


    Let me add one thing, I do absolutely agree with you that anyone who's actively converting others while knowing TTATT, or anyone who's an elder that mistreats others while knowing TTATT is absolutely complicit in the sins of the organization. In fact, I see anyone like that as basically the worst thing in the org. What I said above applies only to those who are trying to get out, and are no longer actively pushing the organization in any way. I myself am still a (barely) active publisher, but every door I knock on is a door that won't be knocked on by someone who'd actually go back for an RV if there's any interest. If anything, my going out helps (in a very small way) to keep them from drawing more in. Every not-at-home that I don't write down and every sign of interest that I don't follow up on is an oppurtunity that they've missed to draw another poor soul into the cult.

  • Red Piller
    Red Piller

    you're entitled to your opinion - like anyone else - no worries.

    And I'm not feeling the slightest sense of pressure - like oneeyed said, if you've never been in, you won't fully understand..

    The pressure from having to die at armageddon - the pressure of the cross looks and stare downs from fellow JW's - the pressure of ostracisim -official and unofficial. These things are much more than any pressure you could possibly apply via this board. I think most of us here are immune to "pressure" at this point - especially if your born into it.

  • Phizzy

    Just to answer the Thread Title, and going in to no further detail, YES, you are complicit if you stay in.

  • tootired2care

    When I learned the TTATT I could no longer stomach it, I stepped down from being an MS, and resolved to never go to another meeting. It was very difficult, and It's almost been two years to the day. In retropect It was one of the best decisions that I've ever made. I would say those that remain elders, and MS for a long time after knowing it's all BS are complicit and just as guilty as the governing body, and annointed for continuing to perpetuate damaging WT falsehoods and drivel -- ultimately ruining peoples lives. Grow a pair and step down!

  • Mum

    Being a JW is comparable to being in prison. Are you complicit if you don't try to escape? It's not an easy situation. It took me years to finally face facts and get out. Be patient with those folks on the inside. You don't know what they're going through.

  • KateWild

    OneEyedJoe-Well said. Thank you for your perspective. Kate xx

  • problemaddict

    I went to meetings for quite a while after I knew better. I had my own journey to make (still do), and needed to think out my way to make it. Alot of different circumstances....too many to go into, made me stay put. But while i did so, i did not DF, teach things that bothered my conscience, or act in a way that "supported" the organization monitarily or otherwise.

    Mrhome, ultimately, we are all responsible for the decisions we make, including all of us at one time being JW's and sufering now as a result. We can blame the organization for plenty, don't get me wrong, but healing begins when you accept the past as having happened, but move forward.

    Basically, to suggest those who have remained "silent" for various reasons, are somehow responsible for your suffering is just coming off as selfish. You will find life is easier and your situation improves, when you don't consider the past and outside intervention to have been the thing that may or may not be contributing to your currant annoyances.

    I have alot of respect for people here that don't agree with this viewpoint, but to truely attempt to be empathetic, is to realize you don't know jack about other peoples circumstances. Jack! Its also very easy for people to be brave that have already lost everything they are going to lose, and been through the process.

    So in short.....empathy.....get some. It will make you a better person. Even empathize with those still held captive to their beliefs. That empathy may be the thing that one day helps you get out.

    Also one last point. On the topic of nobody having come before you that has done anything meaningful, i would point to the board you are on that Simon runs, the research in the search function here, the hard work of people like Paul on jwfacts, the sacrifice of people like Barbara Anderson, the multiple sites such as JWsurvey, JWstruggle, and many more.

    You have more information, opinions, research, and details to be able to make a stand againt nonsens than has ever been available before. This has taken alot of time, effort, and more. And the people still in, are also responsible for sharing all of the tidbits, videos, etc that we get. As long as they are doing no harm, I say let them do whats best for them.

Share this