"But the Basics haven't changed"

by Phizzy 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Ucantnome

    i remember when i returned to the meetings after about ten years of non-attendence i found myself sitting there and thinking this is basically just as boring as it always was.

  • designs

    To an active faithful JW the Generation changes and the greater control by the GB are all seen as 'progressive light', even what is allowed for blood components.

    Very difficult to break through the mental barriers of a gung-ho JW.

  • Laika

    Have JWs kept any of the doctrines they had in 1919?

    Apart from an emphasis on using the name Jehovah to refer to god I can't think of any?

  • designs

    Laika- Simply answer is No. In 1919 they were all Bible Students using Studies In The Scriptures which was a very different eschatology than what Rutherford and Franz came up with 1927 to 1935.

  • Oubliette

    Phizzy, the young elder is right, the basics have NOT changed: It's still a high-control, destructive cult!

    As for doctrinal matters, there are really only two beliefs that have remained from Russell's time until now:

    1. Soul Sleep, taken from the Second Adventists, which has two sub-beliefs:

    • No Hell
    • No Immortality of the Soul

    2. Gentile Times ended in 1914 which came from:

    • an idea advanced by John Aquila Brown in 1823
    • expanded upon in the 1830's by a farmer named William Miller
    • later tweaked by Apollos Hale and Sylvester Bliss, whoever they were
    • exposed as false in 1840 by John Dowling, whoever he was
    • reworked by Second Adventists, such as Barbour after 1844
    • then finally take over by Charles Taze Russell as an end time prophecy, with the Gentile times expected to herald the conclusion of Armageddon, not the beginning of the Last Days.

    So practically EVERYTHING taught in Russell's time has been since discarded except two basic beliefs, one of which he got from another religion and the other conceived of and then twisted and mangled by a bunch of crackpots all vying for one-upsmanship to prove their personal understanding of the incontrovertible Word of God!

    And is should be emphasized that what Russell and the early Bible Students believed about 1914 is completely different from what Witnesses believe today. In fact, the only thing about 1914 that stayed the same was calling it "The Gentile Times." As noted above, what that meant to Russell wouldn't even be recognized by a modern JW. Russell believed 1914 would be The End of the Last Days, not "The Beginning of the End."

    Must be holy spirit, excuse me: Holy Spirit!!!

    Of the two beliefs, the evidence is clear that the second is false and the first is, from our perspective as living human beings, completely unverifiable either way.

    Nice. Definitely got the fingerprints of God all over this one!

    - -

  • cultBgone

    Phizzy, nice thread. Everyone's comments are spot on, thanks for the info...saving this.

  • Ucantnome

    for me the basics is 1914 and that hasn't changed.

    if that changed then 1919 is off and so is 1925 or whenever the 1300 something days of daniel ended they were never commissioned to do anything

  • designs

    We'll always have Cleveland Ohio, they can't take that away from us.

  • Oubliette

    Ucantnome: for me the basics is 1914 and that hasn't changed.

    Not so, Russell absolutely taught that 1914 would bring Armageddon. He was wrong. It was not until the '30s that Rutherford began publishing that 1914 was "The Beginning of the End."

    Of course, that is different from what the Watchtower claims it said prior to 1914. Compare that to this:

    • "Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8

    Liars gotta' lie.

  • stuckinarut2

    Did anyone ever play the game "chinese whispers" when they were kids?

    The basic result of the game is that the original comment or sentance told in the beginning changes drastically by the time the last person (perhaps 20 people later) hears it!

    The results are often very funny, or very disturbing!

    WT teachings are no more that "chinese whispers"....the original teachins are so distorted or changed, that the originators of the message would not even recognise it anymore....

    SO, who told the truth along the way? Was it the one who started it, the one in the middle, or the one at the end??

    Whats makes the most sense?

    So Phizzy, you were right with the comment you "The religion you left is no longer the same"....

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