Witnesses called for a bible study

umbertoecho

Hello all.

I haven't been here for some time to post as mainly I read the comments and such. Yesterday was a really interesting, unnerving experience though. Two sisters had called last week when I had an abscess on my tooth and was sort of sick from it. Still, I said to them "Please come back if you wish to really discuss the bible and only the bible, for that is the only book that I consider to be of any merit here. No books about the bible, no mags, no pamphlets please, as I am sick of them and they are not for me" They said okay and so arrived yesterday. After preliminary hello's and sit downs and the like. They started on about what I believed in regarding God etc and so I told them of my basic belief in God and the Son. With a deft flick of her hand, it was in her bag and out with a study book. I reminded her and her friend of our agreement the prior week and told her to put it away and get her bible out. Then I suggested we start at the very beginning of the bible. Well! This made them so uncomfortable, both of them, that they read a few sections of Genesis and then diverted away from the bible all together, trying to find out my position in regard to "their version of it". I said that I am not obliged to read any of their books and that as far as I knew, only the bible is traditionally held to be the authorized word of God.

They closed in on me then and asked me if I blamed God for all that had happened. I said no, and what relevance did this have to my request that we use the bible solely as our basis for discussion. No reply...........really. Instead there was an awkward sort of sitting back and fidgeting in their seats. Then the leader of the two asked if I would be prepared to meet again on Saturday at 11am., and could she bring her husband. I asked her if she felt she needed her husband to help her cope with a bible discussion and why she felt uncomfortable now. She said he would be able to refer me back and forth between scriptures and hence, forward the case for their beliefs ( This is the gist of what she said, for I have used my own words here)

I agreed and also asked her if her husband was an elder, for I suspected he was. He is. She said she felt out of her depth not going with the method in which the society prepares them for teaching. And so it went........with me trying to get them to drop their suspicions of me and loosen up, just read and discuss, perhaps disagree even, but at least discuss without some prior interference as to what these verses mean. No way was this going to happen and I confess that I felt uncomfortable at being treated with this amount of caution. I told them they were already two against one with me being the only one. What was the reason for bringing in some elder or expert, this was no contest. It was a genuine "Let us read and talk freely together approach I had". They did not believe me, of this I am quite sure. I could see the discomfort in them and they would not read anymore from the bible at this meeting. I really feel strange about this turn of events for I was raised in this religion and although never became baptized, I have never tried to cause problems and have always been willing to talk. Now I feel as though I am the one who, for some reason, has been deemed as doing a wrong thing.

I will see the elder and his wife on Saturday. If it proves worth while I will let you know how it goes. Has anyone had this strange sort of experience before.

Crazyguy

They really don't know how to use just the bible. Their books lay it out for them and scripture flip to get the point across. Discussing the bible one chapter at a time will trip them up. The fact that you want to lay down some ground rules just makes them think your some apostate or born again Christian that's trying to get your point across. They don't want this, this religion is for people that don't have a clue what the bible teaches. Most people that come in to this religion are former Catholics, Mormons attract mostly Baptists. Anyway I would proceed with great caution, this cult really knows how to twist the bible. You may want to ask yourself why you would want to have anything to do with a cult that doesn't follow the teachings of Christ?

FayeDunaway

Next time start at John

smiddy

When the elder comes I would lay down the rule that he is only their as an observer and in no way is he to engage you in dialogue as it is obvious they want to gang up on you. If they agree to that ask the women how long have they been going door to door preaching , and yet feel they are not adequately qualified to answer simple questions using only the bible ? Every baptized person , regardless of age is considered a minister of God , what sort of minister of religion can`t answer simple questions about the bible without relying on somebody else to answer for them ? You could also ask them if they would read christian material you might want to give them , of course the answer is no , so why should they expect you to read their material.?

Just some thoughts that came to my mind ,let us know how it went

smiddy

Driving Force

Why not ask a couple of friends around at the same time and when the sister arrives with her (elder) husband tell them that your friends are also interested in the discussion.

Of course prime your friends well on this.

smiddy

Adding , if I may to FayeDunaway`s comment quote the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of The Christian Greek Scriptures published by the WTB&TS , the word for word translation states in John 1:1 In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god.

and in their column beside it they insert the prefix "a" changing the whole meaning rendering it " In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was a god."

I like the suggestion by Driving Force to ask a few of your friends around at the same time also , why should they, JW`s , outnumber you , they are guests in your house .

smiddy

Deltawave

They can't, my wife and I are currently aux pioneers and I have started refusing to go from door to door with literature. Instead I've been offering to listen to people need someone to talk too.

We can't hold our own without the books to do our talking for us.

The Searcher

An Elder visiting? Excellent opportunity to get him to explain his hypocrisy and un-scriptural practices, by asking him to read this passage of scripture -

(Matthew 18:15-17) "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, a) go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, b) take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, c) speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, d) let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector",

and then ask him;

a) If I discover that you've committed a sin, what must I do first?

b) What if you don't listen to me? (Witnesses of his sin. Witnessing someone being accused of something only makes a person a witness of an accusation, not of the sin!)

c) What happens if you reject the 2 or 3 witnesses' admonitions? (The congregation Greek 'ekklesia), not Elders, Greek 'presbyteros'. Paul told Timothy the same thing - to reprove sinners in front of the congregation, not 3 Elders! (1 Timothy 5:20)

d) What happens when you reject the congregation's admonition? (So do you as Jehovah's Witnesses go and preach to "tax collectors & men of the nations? Shouldn't you be shunning them, according to this verse?

Where in these three verses does it even mention the term Elders? Scripturally, Elders are not directed to set up "Judicial Committees", so why do J.W.'s go beyond what the Bible says regarding this?

Look forward to your next report!

Heaven

Jehovah's Witnesses are recruiters. They do not study the Bible. Most JWs don't really even know the whole Bible. JWs are trained a certain way in order to convince you to join their religion (aka cult).

JWs study the Watchtower's publications, which are really just their sales aids, and use the Bible to back up what the Watchtower publishes, in order to convince you to join. If they cannot use their pre-determined method of salesmanship, they are lost. They are all told that without the Watchtower's magazines, etc, they cannot know the Bible. This is why they feel uncomfortable.

They need to bring in the elder to straighten you out so that you will accept the JW way of convincing you to join. If he can't do it, they'll likely stop coming.

Mephis

Having to read and discuss the Bible in context will make them very uncomfortable. Their whole approach is to cherry pick a line or verse and then torture it into some relevance. But as you grew up inside too, you know this already. Thing with discussing doctrine with them is that true believers will just block out anything you tell them or show them. It's kind of interesting to watch them doing it as they shift from prepared talking point to prepared talking point.

As Heaven says, you'll get the elder come and if you're still not going to play by their rules then they'll likely not come again. If you're not going to accept the WT as the source of all wisdom, then you'll never be a good drone for the Borg. ;)

Witnesses called for a bible study

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