As a "therapist trainee"(still have to take my license test) I worry about all of the religious people out there who might commit suicide if the Rapture/Armaggeddon does not materialize. What if the Bible is proven to be "a big fairy tale" will Born Again Christians(bac) and JWs kill themself? I worry about some of my older JW relatives that have waited for Armaggeddon for 50 years and are still waiting. My mom and aunt both were baptized in the 60s and as of today still believe Armaggeddon is around the corner. I have basically given up any hope for my mom who is 84 years old to seeing the light about the WT. But I have family members who are born agains and they have the same "delusion" about the Rapture be around the corner and waiting to be taken up to heaven with Jesus. Religion really destroys a person's mind and thinking abilities. Any words of advice from posters on this question. And please no WT-bashing I am coming from a therapist point of view.
Do you believe there will be "Mass Suicides" within the BAC/JW community?
by booker-t 21 Replies latest jw friends
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perfect1
When religious people mass suicide, they do it so they dont have to accept that their belief system is false. Jonestown and Heavens Gate all died as true believers.
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ABibleStudent
perfect1 - When religious people mass suicide, they do it so they dont have to accept that their belief system is false. Jonestown and Heavens Gate all died as true believers.
H'mmm, Jonestown seems like an exaggerated generalization to me that is not substantiate by facts. How many people at Jonestown were coerced/deceived to drink the arsenic laced Kool-aid? How could a baby forced to drink the Kool-aid be expected to make an informed decision?
Sure it is possible that some deluded people will make spur-of-the-moment decisions under "undue influence" , but that will probably be less than 20% of current JWs unless the GB is able to increase their "undue influence" over all JWs.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
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cofty
I don't think it is likely. It appears they have given up on setting dates so there shouldn't be any "Great Disappointment" moment in the future.
I won't be surprised to see many more individuals becoming sad and dispondent though.
They new cult compound in Warwick does give me concern for those working at HQ. I think they will become more and more detached from reality.
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BackseatDevil
I wouldn't put it past them, but for ritght now: no.
If you take the religion out of the religion, you get a very strong and very profitable milti-billion dollar publishing company. When there is a high volume of finances, the issue becomes less about the Almighty god and more about the Almightly dollar.
Putting the religion back in (if you were a witess you should remember this) you get the same sort of cognative hooks and induced "reward relacements" that act as a carrot on a stick in front of each witness. The structure of the set up has this going on perpetually... same with LDS and Scientology. There is no reason to ever bring the doomsday TODAY (via mass suicide) as more money can be made TOMORROW. So as a means of motivation (you should likewaise study the subject of motivation) putting a reward slightly in the future motivates people only to a certain amount... enough to give money and feel good about themselves, but NOT enough to give their lives (generally speaking). It's a delicate balance to give the impression of "urgency" while still allowing for a measure of "free will."
Jonestown (more than Heaven's Gate of the Branch Davidians) WAS a money maker, but only to a certain extent. There comes a point where the money dries up from this enclosed section they created and there is nothing else to do but level the structure to the ground and rebuild somewhere else. That's what three of the highest officials tried to do with Jonestown. In other cases, there is just an "illusion of validity" where money is not the issue, and the leaders will die alongside everyone else like Heaven's Gate and Branch Davidians.
This would not be the case with the witnesses. They have a really profitable thing going, and the 'carrot on the stick' method works extremely well with constant small "changes" to the structure to give a feeling of movement in the organization causing individuals to need to move as well too keep up. In actuality, no movement is being made, but money is. There is no reason to change that.
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Vidiot
Booker-T - "I worry about all of the religious people out there who might commit suicide if the Rapture/Armaggeddon does not materialize. What if the Bible is proven to be "a big fairy tale" will Born Again Christians(bac) and JWs kill themself?"
Historically, failed predictions paradoxically seem to reinforce True Believers' convictions, rather than the opposite.
I can't speak for BAC's, but I can see certain individual JWs (particularly those high up the WT food chain) to drink the Kool-Aid in response to, say, the sudden collapse/disintegration of the WTS.
GB members, particularly; by all indications, they're full-on True Believers (surprisingly easy when you surround yourself with people who are never allowed to disagree with you), but without the WTS, they'd have nothing.
They would be nothing.
perfect1 - 'When religious people mass suicide, they do it so they dont have to accept that their belief system is false. Jonestown and Heavens Gate all died as true believers."
Not quite.
Some were forced to participate against their will, from what I've read.
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villagegirl
I have read statistics that suicide rates are high in the "organization"
as a whole. I personally knew of several cases in one small area in California.
But that is from being trapped in the mental closet they are shut in and unable
to see their way out because of fear and confusion, as opposed to a 'General Plan'
for everyone to off themselves as a group. Which is why we here, need to make this
a safe place, not to placate and feed the FDS delusion, as well as those specific destructive
doctrines of entrapment. As an example: (1) Fear of Higher Education (2) Fear of questioning
the teachings of the WT (3) Fear of the Governing Body (4) Fear of Shunning!!!!
(5) Fear that there is; "no other place to go" (6) Fear of considering other forms of
spirituality, which includes fear of other churches, other philosophies, other world views.
(7) Fear of trusting themselves to think; to read, to analyze, any material, Biblical or
other materials, like history and science or even old WT books.
We have no manual on how to get people out of this cult, so we do the best we can.
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perfect1
Vidiot and a Bible Student:
Well, obviously babies had no say in the matter at Jonestown. From what I have researched about Jonestown, no one was deceived, they knew the Kool Aid was poisoned. Sure, there is coercion in any social situation, but it came down to drinking or not drinking, and a few who refused to drink fled. Heavens Gate I admit I am less informed of.
My point is that religious groups do not commit suicide when all the members realize their belief system is false. Suicide happens as the ultimate act of faith.
That point is in response to the OPs statement:
What if the Bible is proven to be "a big fairy tale" will Born Again Christians(bac) and JWs kill themself?
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Vidiot
perfect1 - "My point is that religious groups do not commit suicide when all the members realize their belief system is false. Suicide happens as the ultimate act of faith."
Group suicide, maybe.
Leadership suicide? More from a refusal or inability to accept the loss/drastic change.
As a young man, I grasped (almost intuitively) that if we suddenly had a 5-mile-wide spaceship descend to Earth and make First Contact (peaceful or otherwise), that loud snap you'd hear coming from Brooklyn would be the sound of the GB's collective mind.
(just a hypothetical example)
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Bella15
I think your worry comes from your personal experience with JWs and some born again Christians (the ones that think BAC is a label/denomination not an experience). Having been under the Watchtower CORPORATION indoctrinatin for 40 years, and now being open to visit many Christians denominations to observe I think I have some insider's information which is only for my own personal purposes ... every body will have different opinions ... what I seen for example in Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopals, and many Non-denominational ministries is that they yes they hope to be in Heaven one day, but at the same time they already know they have Eternal Life, now in the present, they already walking in eternity and no matter how much The Lord delays, it doesnt matter, they are busy being the arms and legs of Jesus. They don't dwell too much in the future - because they have already eternal life - but focus in the present by bringing the gospel along with practical, needed, material help around the world. They love God for what GOD is not for what God is going to do or give to them. I have seen others that love God and Jesus so much that can't wait to be with them but in the process they neglect doing charity. They are not balanced I think.
You know something I admired about the therapists that treated my niece is how unbiased they were when it comes to religions. They came from the point of view of God as the Deity, the Divinity. They taught us the difference between religion and spirituality; and that our spirituality is as different as our fingerprints. GOD as principle is Universal. I am sure you already cover spirituality in your studies. They also told us to "let people be" - this to stop trying to change/rescue our family members from the Watchtower Corporation - easy said than done!
Back to your question, no I don't think there will be mass suicides in the JWs - some will be sad, some will continue taking any Corporation By-laws as "new light"