I survived a 3-hour manipulation session with 2 elderettes!

by Faithful Witness 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Quarterback

    So did Noah keep it a secret? When asked about the ark, did he just sweat and say, " Well, cough, cough, it's nothing, just a family project that I'm working on".

  • A.proclaimer

    Theses two ladies are all over the place! Just jumping around, leaping from one place to another. Don't let them get away with this Faithful and Discreet Slave question. Make them investigate it and have them give an "answer" cause apparently, they don't sound too certain about this. After all, you are the Bible study that they're suppose to convert, they should follow the way you feel most comfortable with, not the way they like it. Also, tell her that it's rude to interrupt or just point it out to her politely and stick to the main subject.

    The doctrines that reject hellfire, trinity, immortal soul are nothing unique to JWs, you can find these same beliefs in other religions, specifically ones that originate in Adventsim like Christadelphians, seventh day Adventists, Church of God, etc. By pointing out that others teach this, you can ask: if the Faithful and Discreet Slave, supposedly directed by Holy Spirit, provides these essential "bible truths", why do other religions which are not suppose to be true, teach it as well? It's good to remember that Charles Taze Russell had Adventist influences.


    Theres this blog you can check out. It's a Christian guy who is having a study with and Elder. They discuss and debate different topics like new light and the FDS. It might give you some ideas on how to tackle them.



  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Quarterback, you sound exactly like Miss K, in regards to Noah. In the discussion I had with them, we agreed ahead of time to stick with what is actually written in the bible. When they started making assumptions like yours, and asking me to draw logical conclusions, I had to stop them from manipulating the documented account.

    Since there is no story of anyone asking Noah about the ark, we can't answer the question about what Noah did or did not say.

  • sarahsmile

    Three hours is a very long time!

    Women talking about faithful bibical men! That alone is a slap in your face.

    How about faithful women through out bibical time!

    Compared the faithful women did not error like the men,Noah,Moses, and Paul, proves a faithful servant is a woman!

    See I can reason just like a JW.

    They seemed to be defensive when you said something! Goes to show how their minds are controlled. Very closed.

    It just boring to hear them say the samethings as what is in the WT.

  • Quarterback

    I sound like Miss K? What is she like?

    So your rationale is, because it doesn't say anything about Noah preaching in Black and White, in the book of Genesis? Because, the book of Hebrews, and 2 Peter, both support the thought that Noah wasn't silent about God's intent at that time in history.

    I'm not taking sides in your argument with Miss K. I'm just expressing an opinion on this topic. I struggle to believe in the Bible every day, and sometimes it is a challenge when there is a lack of supporting documentation, and background to fully understand the context, and meaning. I don't think that the GB, or anyone has the manopoly on Bible understanding.

  • menrov

    Hi Faithfu Witness...congratulations with your writing skills and also very much appreciate your choice of words. Polite and attractive. Looking forward to therest of the visits.

  • Wonderment

    The Searcher:

    "Ask them to explain the difference between 'upon' and 'over', and if they can think of a single example where both words could possibly mean the same thing.

    Then refer them to the false translation of Revelation 5:10 in the NWT & RNWT, but also to the correct translation of the Greek in their Kingdom Interlinear Translation - which is reinforced by the diagram of the Greek words inside the front cover.

    Ask them why a specific Greek word has been substituted with a different one in their translation?"

    I believe one can make a case of wrong interpretation within the context of Scripture regarding the application of the preposition epi, but not on grammar grounds.

    The preposition epi has variable meanings, including that of "over." The Shorter Lexicon of the Greek New Testament by Gingrich/Danker defines it: "With the genitive--1. of place, lit. and fig. on upon ...Before, in the presence of ... Over of power, authority, control Lk 12:42; Ac 6:3; Ro 9:5; Rv 5:10; 17:18."

    Thus, it is not wise to use the Kingdom Interlinear against the New World Translation to determine the right or wrong translation of a preposition. A good interlinear like the KI just shows the basic meaning of a word, but the translation on the right, or any other for that matter, has more leeway in expressing the various nuances of a Greek word.

  • problemaddict

    Pick another doctrine.......hmmmmm.......how about blood?

    It even ties very nicely into the truth doesn't change theme, as well as the FDS topic quite nicely since the flip flops are very easy to see and discern.

    Plus it is basically indefensable. Their "research" will focus on what JW's have been led to focus on which is that it is "bad medicine". But you don't even hav to go there. Because technically it shouldn't matter if it is good or bad medicine. It is a biblical issue, not a medical one from their perspective.

    You can slice that up a billion ways. JW's are so arrogant witht his doctrine (i know i was), and it can feed back into what you were doing. I can help. There are some real experts here who can help.....I say blood.

  • Wonderment

    Island Man: "Actually, that is a NWT mistranslation of Matthew 24:39. Jesus did not say "took no note". If you look at the greek it actually says the people ‘did not know’. Jesus was actually comparing the people of Noah's day not knowing the timing of the flood with the fact that people would not know the timing of his future presence. That was the whole point of his comparison with the days of Noah. The context makes it clear when you read it carefully from Matthew 24:36."

    The Greek word for "took no note" (to know) can mean many things, and have many implications, including "sexual intercourse" in some contexts. Grammar then, is not the issue, context is. At Matthew 24:39, other translators understand the Greek term to mean:

    Twentieth New Century: "Taking not notice"

    ISV: "They were unaware"

    BBE: "And they had no care"

    Rotherham: "they observed not"

    Living Bible: "people wouldn't believe"

    21st Century NT: "they were completely unconcerned"

    Kevin Condon: "no one gave heed"

    Andy Gaus: "and didn't notice anything"

    NWT: "took no note"

  • kaik

    Terry, very good point. I will use them when I will see my JW family later this year. Especially I like the mentioning of the source of the old (wrong) light that my sibling uses a lot.

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