I survived a 3-hour manipulation session with 2 elderettes!

by Faithful Witness 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jgnat

  I would also demand respect for what you have to say, by stopping them every time they interrupt you. Make them aware of their bad behavior. You can do this by holding up your hand, "Stop"! I wasn't finished...." Do this politely and firmly every time they trample in to your thinking space. If they complain that they can't remember what THEY were going to say next, crisply tell them to make a note to themselves.

  I swear, bad meeting manners is a plague here in Western Canada. I have to keep reminding these self-made cowboys how to behave. Being too polite to interrupt others, I have learned to make notes of critical thoughts to add to the conversation...when I have a chance. When I conduct a meeting, I won't allow two conversations at once. I'll make everyone stop and make them repeat themselves...one at a time. I'm nice about it. I say, "I want to hear what everyone has to say, please continue." After all, that's what meetings are for, to gather ideas and thoughts from everyone in the room. *rant over*

  If you study the servants and slaves of the bible, asking WHO these characters represent in current WT eschatology, also ask WHY they believe that. Why is one scripture interpreted one way and another not?
• 

  ABibleStudent

  You are my HERO, Faithful Witness!! Thank you for writing about your experience! You were great about countering their talking points.

  Now, what did you learn from your experience? I feel that you discovered that both ladies are converts, they may have authentic personas that are controlled by their cult personas, they are afraid of talking more about the FDS, they want to control the conversation, they feel that you are a worthy recruit, they talk too much, they change subjects frequently, they say that they are willing to research (probably using WTBTS propaganda only), they like eating cookies and drinking tea, and you are becoming better at recognizing when they use thought-stopping platitudes.

  What is your plan(s) to keep them coming back, to help empower their authentic personas, and to keep your sanity? To maintain your sanity, I would suggest having appointments or errands to do about 1-1/2 hours after they arrive so that you minimize your frustrations. Ask them simple questions to build a closer relationship with them, such as, "Ask them what they liked about the WTBTS before they were baptized, how WTBTS doctrines have changed over the years, and has the WTBTS done anything that has confused them over the years?"

  Remember what your objectives/goals are. Are your goals to help the elderette to critically think for herself or for you to gain experience helping your JW family and friends to critically think for themselves?

  I do believe that building relationships with them, asking simple questions about subjects that they are afraid of talking about, and always having something to counter a thought-stopping platitude are your best options. I don't think that you talking more will help. Asking them simple questions when they contradict themselves and to lead them to do independent research of the WTBTS will probably be your most effective strategies. Be patient and compassionate with them as you plant seeds of doubt and learn how to control your emotions as well as peel away the layers of BITE control from them.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
• 

  Quarterback

  Hmmmm.... You got me thinking there about Noah, the command given to him and his three sons entering the ark. So I researched.

  Jehovah gave that command just 7 days before the deluge came.

  News about the flood came to Noah before any of his sons were born. He was instructed to build that ark, while he bore sons, and saw them grow, get married and so forth. The Bible tells us that only Noah found favour with Jah. So what happened during those many years? Just because the Genesis account doesn't mention that Noah preached, what do you think Noah did when the neighbours asked him, "What the hell is that, Noah, that you are working on"?

  Jesus also said that the generation before the flood, took no note. No note of what? Did Noah keep it a secret?
• 

  Terry

  POINT: Regarding the CHANGES to the truth, they discarded this as evidence of anything other than their obedience.
  Miss W: "There IS a scripture that tells us the light will get brighter in the time of the end."

  I find it useful to Stop a person who is deflecting--focus direct attention on what has been said--and go slowly through the implications of the statement.

  Let's do that with Miss W's rejoinder to you, okay?

  "There IS a scripture that tells us the light will get brighter in the time of the end."

  1. She is making an assumption about what constitutes LIGHT in the first place.

  She is conviently stipulating Watch Tower teaching=Light so she can continue by saying New Light is merely even brighter.

  2.If you light one candle in a dark room you can make out what is close by. If you continue lighting more candles, the light grows brighter and more can be seen.

  HOWEVER-consider this.

  If you blow out a candle each time you light a new one nothing is brighter and more cannot be seen.

  Jehovah's Witnesses NO LONGER TEACH OLD LIGHT because it is snuffed out by each adjustment!

  Conclusion?

  She is making a false analogy! JW "Truth" goes extinct, is snuffed out and is replaced. It is never additive.
• 

  NotNew

  Terry:

  Stick with the question: HOW did the FDS come up with things that needed to be changed?

  • Stick with the question: Where does old light come from?

  Stick with the question: Why demand loyalty to something that changes

  ---------------------

  • Excellent question...so simple yet a powerful one.

  SW
• 

  Island Man

  Quarterback: Jesus also said that the generation before the flood, took no note. No note of what? Did Noah keep it a secret?

  Actually, that is a NWT mistranslation of Matthew 24:39. Jesus did not say "took no note". If you look at the greek it actually says the people "did not know". Jesus was actually comparing the people of Noah's day not knowing the timing of the flood with the fact that people would not know the timing of his future presence. That was the whole point of his comparison with the days of Noah. The context makes it clear when you read it carefully from Matthew 24:36. See my question here for more details

  But Watchtower uses the unconventional rendering "took no note" to imply that the people did not take note of Noah's preaching and/or the sign of the times.
• 

  Band on the Run

  If you start asking "apostate" questions, they will depart in a huff. Two weeks ago I heard a JW tell people how Bible Study's faces light up when they learn something new about Jehovah. I thought I was going to barf. She is deluded.
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  Quarterback

  Hmmm...good point Island Man. The Greek does mention, "they didn't know"

  I don't know Greek, and wouldn't be in any position to argue how those Greek word's should be understood. The thought in 2 Pet 2:5 , in the Greek, does claim that Noah was a "Preacher". Heb. 11:5 says that, "Noah condemed the world" (Byington translation). The Greek says, "though which faith he judged down the world".
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  sparrowdown

  Faithful Witness said- "I don't feel like she ever got to the point or conclusion of her arguement, I felt so cheated".

  That's because with JW's all argument roads lead to the same destination- that is, " this is is the way it is because the FDS says so".

  That is the bottom line, they don't really need arguments and counter arguments when their default position is " because the WT says so".

  They like to humor people by having fake "discussions" but inside themselves they are screaming "it is this way because the ORG says so".

  Somehow on some level they realise that it could be off putting to any genuine listener to say that out loud so they go to great lengths to distract you with off point issues and subjects. Remaining sane and calm during this process can be extremely hard, but sounds like you held your own. Good for you.
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  Ding

  The real challenge is figuring out how to get JWs to think even one thought outside the WT programming.