Preparing for my next visit from my Elderette - Who (or what) is the Faithful & Discreet Slave, and why do JW's worship and follow a slave?

by Faithful Witness 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Faithful Witness

  She is coming tomorrow afternoon, and I do plan to have a coherent mind and much better concentration this time. I was suffering from hypoglycemia last time she made a surprise visit, and I was foggy and literally could not comprehend a simple sentence I was reading.

  Our plans are to discuss the topic of the FDS. Our agreement is to study from the Bible only, as she only wants to read from "inspired" words.

  • I think she is afraid I'm going to print out a bunch of apostate articles or make her defend accusations from the media - I know better than that.
  • If she opens up any WT literature, I am going to ask her to clarify what "inspired" words are, and also to define "apostate" information. (she really doesn't want to go there...)

  Any ideas for good questions to ask her, or techniques to keep the conversation on track?
• 

  Londo111

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeURVCRK7GQ&index=3&list=PLyNx0oM_bmgBuDVZWWiInBRGoovkUj95B

  I hope the above might be able to help examine what the parable is actaully about....
• 

  AlphaMan

  Here's what bugs me about the Jehovah Witness religion and their F&DS doctrine.

  1. The JW's claim that only they have the truth and true religion.

  2. The JW's claim that the end is very close. Much closer than last year, last decade, etc.

  3. The JW's claim that they alone are preaching the truth worldwide before the end comes.

  4. The JW's claim that their work is lead by their Governing Body who claim to be God's Channel on earth.

  With the end so close, why only in the last couple of years would their Jehovah God suddenly make them realize that only the 8 JW Governing Body members are the Faithful & Discreet Slave? That means that any claim to preach the truth worldwide was invalid, because it was a false F&DS doctrine teaching. (that all anointed on earth are F&DS) Why would their Jehovah God let them go on for so long and they didn't even know who the hell their F&DS is? How do they know they are right this time?
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  Abe Ostate

  I would expect the conversation to go something like this:
  
  -She'll read the passage in question (Matthew 24:45-47).
  -She'll then begin to read into the passage, by which I mean that she'll assert that the governing body is the faithful slave, the domestics are all Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. In other words, she'll interpret it for you, but she won't provide any proof to back up her interpretations. Or, heck, she may just take the Bible verses from the new Watchtower and try to prove her point based on those "alone" (but again, her interpretations will either be unsupported, or based wholly on the Watchtower article itself).
  
  I would demand that she provides proof that her interpretation is correct, given that not every group understands the passage the same way (which indicates the meaning is unclear).
• 

  ABibleStudent

  Congratulations Faithful Witness about caring enough to help the elderette to critically think for herself!!

  If your elderette is anything like the brother who was willing to "Study the Bible" with me, be prepared for her to skip around and read verses of scriptures and not an entire paragraph nor an entire chapter. Rember she has an agenda to recruit you into the WTBTS and not to just share ideas and opinions about what is written in the Bible. Be prepared for her to change subjects and to use thought-stopping platitudes when she is feeling cognitive dissonance. When your elderette says thought-stopping platitudes, view it as an opportunity to strip away a layer of BITE control by asking her simple questions to overcome her though-stopping platitudes like the ones suggested in the thread As a JW, What statements made you "stop thinking?".

  If you haven't read the thread exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed by Billy the Ex-Bethelite, please do. With JWs it may be more important how a simple question is phrased verses what you ask to get past a JW's cult persona.

  Your elderate will probably start off with either Mt 24:45 or a scripture in John to prove that Christians need an organization to guide them. Here are some potential counter arguments:

  • Why did Jesus Christ say that the first and greatist commandment is " Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." and did not mention anything about an organization nor a religion in Mt 22:34-40? How can I love an organization when Jesus Christ said to love God with "ALL" my heart, soul, and mind? When scriptures appear confusing, shouldn't we follow Jesus Christ's teachings in Mt 22:34-40 and pray for guidance from the Holy Spirt like most Christians do, rather than believe in writtings by men about how to interpret the Bible?
  • Why does Jesus Christ use the past tense in Mt 24:45? Does that mean that God already selected the FDS ~ 2000 years ago, or was Jesus Christ giving a warning to religious leaders in Mt 24:45-51? Most christians who read Mt 21:28 through Mt 24 interpret them as mostly parables to teach christians how to behave in harmony with Mt 22:34-40 and warn them of potential consequences.
  • Ask your elderette simple questions that start with "How should I respond to a christian who would say that interpretation is not in harmony with Jesus Christ's teachings and God's two greatist commandments?"

  Best of wishes for you and think about how to overcome thought-stopping platitudes to empower your elderette's authentic persona to become stronger and critically think for herself.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert

  P.S. - If you have a smartphone, it might be beneficial to have a saved link to Steve Hassan's How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01) video to help your elderette to distinguish between healthy and unhealthy conversations. Your elderette shouldn't want to bring reproach on the WTBS by acting like a dangerous cult member to non-JWs.
• 

  kneehighmiah

  She doesn't know what she's getting in to. Dare her to show you how the FDS was appointed in 1919 using only the Bible. It's impossible. Look up John Gills expostion of the bible and consider the commentary for the verse. Dare her to justify a literal FDS and a hypothetical evil slave using only the Bible.
• 

  wizzstick

  A simple point is that in Matthew 24:36-51 are a series of parables.

  Not, parable, parable, parable, prophecy, hypothetical situation...

  So ask her:

  1) Where is the evidence that Jesus intended this the be a prophecy?

  2) What about the second faithful slave?

  SECOND? Yes...the parables continue in Matthew 25. Read from 14-30.

  14 “For it is just like a man about to travel abroad who summoned his slaves and entrusted his belongings to them. 15 He gave five talents * to one, two to another, and one to still another, to each according to his own ability, and he went abroad. 16 Immediately the one who received the five talents went and did business with them and gained five more. 17 Likewise, the one who received the two gained two more. 18 But the slave who received just one went off and dug in the ground and hid his master’s money. *

  19 “After a long time, the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them. + 20 So the one who had received the five talents came forward and brought five additional talents, saying, ‘Master, you entrusted five talents to me; see, I gained five talents more.’ + 21 His master said to him: ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. + Enter into the joy of your master.’ + 22 Next the one who had received the two talents came forward and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me; see, I gained two talents more.’ + 23 His master said to him: ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.’

  24 “Finally the slave who had received the one talent came forward and said: ‘Master, I knew you to be a demanding man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. + 25 So I grew afraid and went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 In reply his master said to him: ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow? 27 Well, then, you should have deposited my money * with the bankers, and on my coming I would have received it back with interest.

  28 “‘Therefore, take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. + 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. + 30 And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.’

  So who is represented by the slave that received 5 talents, and who is represented by the slave that received 2 talents?

  What? Can't she answer that?

  Another great point is from the Watchtower 1981 Mar 1 pp.24-26. You can show her that from the WT CD-ROM. That's not apostate surely?

  "Witnesses of Jehovah understand that the "slave" is comprised of all anointed Christians as a group on earth at any given time during the 19 centuries since Pentecost. Accordingly, the "domestics" are these followers of Christ as individuals.
  
  Some readers may feel that this is a rather sectarian view of matters. Or they may object to the idea that the "slave" and the "domestics" represent the same class, one as a composite body and the other as individuals. The objectors may argue that not all of Christ's anointed disciples have a share in preparing the spiritual food, so that perhaps the "slave" pictures only the leading ones, and the "domestics" those they serve in the congregation.
  
  There is no point in trying to force an interpretation of the parable. Self-deception is of no benefit and is spiritually damaging. Therefore, we must look to the Scriptures for an understanding. In doing this, what do we find?
  [ ... ]
  Thus we see a clear Scriptural basis for saying that all anointed followers of Christ Jesus make up God's "servant," with Jesus as its Master."

  So in 1981, the idea that the leading ones alone (The Governing Body are surely the leading ones) are the FDS, was an idea of objectors? So how can it now be correct that the objectors had it right all along.

  That and other good background points are in: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/faithful-discreet-slave.php
• 

  The Searcher

  What about this for a question:

  If the men in Brooklyn have been God's sole (stress this word!) direct channel of communication on earth since 1919 (the Faithful & Discreet Slave) then why did it take 93 years and one of apostate Christendom's Bible scholars, to "reveal" the truth to the FDS in 2012, that there is no such thing as an evil slave. It's hypothetical! (see Matthew 24:45 footnote in the NET Bible online)

  The GB must have been pretty peeved that God bypassed them with that 'new light'!!!
• 

  Oubliette

  • Q: If the "New Light" the WT publishes NOW about the FDS is correct, then what was the teaching before?

  The opposite of "correct" is "incorrect;" the opposite of "right" is "wrong."

  "An adjustment in our thinking" is NOT an accurate description of a change in doctrine or anything else for that matter. It is a word-game, a desperate attempt at obfuscation.

  • Q: If the FDS/GB was incorrect/wrong about their own prophetic identity for the last century, then how can we be sure they are correct/right about anything?

  You see how easy that was! The GB/FDS/WTBTS completely underminded their own credibility with this incoherent, contradictory and internally inconsistent idea, thus proving what idiots they are.

  WT "theology" is complete nonsense.
• 

  sarahsmile

  Just answer her question with a question.

  Would you mind if we look it up in another bible? or two!

  Plainly ask her who she thinks the faithful and descreet slave represents?

  Can you prove ths with the bible only?

  Go therefore and make disciples?

  Who else is preaching Gods Name?

  All power and authority was given to Jesus. Knees bowed to Jesus when he said go therefore and preach this good news of the Kingdom?

  What did they preach?

  Jesus was the Messiah.

  New Testament is about preaching Jesus. Granted they spoke about the Father but after Christ death it was about Jesus.

  FDS is a hard mind control thought.

  I doubt she will stay on that topic!

  Partaking is better! Why should people partake? Only one answer! Why they should not partake? Only one answer!

  If one believes in Jesus as the Messiah one should partake. If one does not one should not partake. But the scriptures will lead that one. If she shows you the right scripture! There is one they use.

  If you want eternal life! Who would not want life saving food.

  Have fun.

  No matter what breath and never say what you really would want to say! I've made that mistake!