by Crazyguy 132 Replies latest watchtower bible
Processor: "trees again would grow in Isreal" no one
could forsee that. LOL
Revelation 22:1-2
And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations.
abe
Kate, I don't understand your gripe with Artaxerxes becoming king in 465 BCE and sending Nehemiah away to build Jerusalem's walls a few years later. He became king in 465 BCE and in his 20th year he sent Nehemiah to rebuild the walls. That brings one to 445 BCE, give or take a few months. This date corresponds to the calculations done by Hoehner and Feinberg.
Few historians question the authenticity of the book Nehemiah/Ezra, originally one book. Some of the edicts contained in Ezra were written in Aramaic and are viewed as originals. So whether you calculate the 70 weeks as lunar or solar years, you still come out to Jesus' ministry and death. This is what Paul Tanner had to say about Dan. 9:
Daniel 9:24-27 is “a glorious messianic revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ, announcing among other things the time of His coming and His death before the cataclysmic events of A.D. 70. The passage remains a bedrock of prophetic revelation.”1
Tanner reviewed the literature, especially the Church Fathers, even that of Jewish scholars, and this was his conclusion:
Yet from the literature that is available some vital conclusions can be drawn. All the early church fathers, along with Jewish scholars, interpreted each “week” as a period of seven years and applied this quite literally (though Origen took the final week as seventy years, i.e., a week of decades rather than years). Significantly, of the eleven early church fathers surveyed in this study all but one of them held to some form of messianic interpretation of Daniel’s prophecy (the lone exception being Hilarianus who held to a fulfillment in the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in the second century B.C.).2
1. J. Paul Tanner, “Is Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy Messianic? Part 2” Bibliotheca Sacra Vol. 166 (July 3009): p. 339. Dallas, TX: Dallas Theological Seminary.
2. J. Paul Tanner, “Is Daniel’s Seventy-Weeks Prophecy Messianic? Part 1” Bibliotheca Sacra Vol. 166 (April–June 2009): p. 198. Dallas, TX: Dallas Theological Seminary.
But of course it's your choice what you want to believe. Bart Ehrman concentrates on NT textual criticism, which is negative and subjective to the extreme. If you do not supplement it with some objectivity and historical reality, your faith will be destroyed in no time. That means you have to allow for the benefit of the doubt until such time as something is proved wrong. At least Ehrman believes that Jesus did exist, but not as what he is portayed in the NT. But where do you draw the line?
The phrase “to bring in everlasting righteousness” (Dan. 9:24 ESV) can only refer to the Christ.
Which will happen at the end of the 70 weeks:
Matthew 13:39-43
The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.
Both the begining and end of the 70 weeks prophecy are completely misunderstood.
abe
The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all thingsthat cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness
Transgression terminated!
Daniel 9:24
"There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression,
Let him that has ears listen.
abe
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
, 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.
Transgression terminated!
Daniel 9:24
"There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression,
Let him that has ears listen.
abe
I concentrated on a part that is irrefutable
No you cherry picked a phrase or two and retro-fitted events to suit while ignoring the rest of the esoteric waffle in the same chapter.
No different at all from the Watchtower.
Well a couple things i have learned about Daniel but have not confirmed is that the last king was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar but that of Neplisar ( I know the spelling is all wrong) and this Neplisar was gone from the throne and left his son in charge, because according to his own cuneiform writings was sick for about 10 years. He also was a worshipper of the God Sin and not Marduk, and the chapter talking about Nebuchadnezzar being like a cow for 7 years is more a story about this king being cursed and sick for worshipping Sin instead of Marduk. Also like I mentioned before the writer doesn't even have his history correct because he lists Darius and the king that conquered Babylon and this guy doesn't exist, in fact Darius doesn't come on the seen until later. So now how can we take the Book of Daniel all that serious with these mistakes?? And again lets not forget that alot of scholars believe the book written about 165 bce and then other parts written after christ.
Why would an author write up a prophecy after the fact? To establish credibility.
Why would an author write up a prophecy after the fact? To establish credibility.
It's just like the Watchtower does today. Originally, Russell had predicted that 1914 would be the climax of Armageddon, and all nations would be gone by then.
Today, they talk like Russell would have predicted WW1.
The same likely happened to all these writings of old. They were not complely made up, but simply adopted a bit to match with actual events. Their purpose was encouraging the believers, and "prophecies" that came true are always good for that.
Okay, let me spell it out for you. The prophecy is mainly about the fate of “the holy city” and Daniel’s people (v. 24).
What city is being referred to? In v. 25 it is identified as Jerusalem. Are you still with me? V. 26 continues: “As for the city and the sanctuary, the people of the coming prince will destroy them.” So, the city and the sanctuary are going to be destroyed.
This is quite straightforward. No esoteric waffle here. Even if one dates the book of Daniel to 165 BCE, above prophecy is remarkably accurate, don’t you think?
