EMETH!!! WHERE ARE YOU?!?!? JESUS IS SHORT ON CASH!!! LOL!!!
DD
Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"
by DATA-DOG 387 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Phizzy
Bumped, surely someone will defend the Truth ?
Mind you, if they are going to defend the WT/JW "truth" perhaps they are waiting till the next Noo Lite flashes forth from the exploding arse of the GB, it really can't be long before that happens. I am sure I heard a rumble.
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punkofnice
Questions for active JWs:
If Holy Spirit directs the elders into their decision in respect of the outcome of a ‘judicial committee’ then why is the alleged ‘wrongdoer’ given 7 days to appeal? Did God make a mistake?
When the writers of the watchtower get things wrong and have to change a previous doctrine why are they likened to the men in the Bible who ‘got things wrong’ (a claim which cannot be supported by scripture)? If this is the case, which scriptures had to be altered later on because God gave the writers incorrect information?
Are the Governing Body of the JWs ‘God’s mouthpiece’ (as they have claimed), or ‘just imperfect men’? They seem to be both depending on which scenario furthers the interests of the watchtower. How do we know when they switch from being one to the other?
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defender of truth
" Are the Governing Body of the JWs ‘God’s mouthpiece’ (as they have claimed), or ‘just imperfect men’? They seem to be both depending on which scenario furthers the interests of the watchtower. How do we know when they switch from being one to the other? "
They are both. Men such as Moses and Abraham were both 'just imperfect men' who were used by God to convey a message. -
defender of truth
"When the writers of the watchtower get things wrong and have to change a previous doctrine why are they likened to the men in the Bible who ‘got things wrong’ (a claim which cannot be supported by scripture)? If this is the case, which scriptures had to be altered later on because God gave the writers incorrect information? "
The disciples of Jesus got things wrong. They even interpreted (messianic) prophecy incorrectly. "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"Acts 1:6
No scripture has been altered because it was inspired directly by God. The Watchtower writers do not claim that their interpretations are inspired or infallible, and never have done. (see the box at the beginning of the Revelation grand climax book, I've no doubt you have read it.) -
defender of truth
" If Holy Spirit directs the elders into their decision in respect of the outcome of a ‘judicial committee’ then why is the alleged ‘wrongdoer’ given 7 days to appeal? Did God make a mistake? "
God could not make a mistake, he did not make that decision. The elders did, who are guided by Holy Spirit in that they use the instructions and principles given to them by reading the spirit inspired words found in the Bible, but they are imperfect and can only know what they have been told, they are not omniscient. Neither were the judges who applied the Law in Israel. Mistakes can happen, more information may be needed. The appeal process is a loving provision. -
FrankieGoesToHollywood
D.O.T!
What truth is it exactly youré trying to defend?
The "truth" that only 144,000 literal will live in the heavenly realm and billion others will be resurected on earth?
That there was a "Governing body in the 1´st century?
That only 144,000 is Gods children, the rest of humanity just mere friends?
That the Paradise mentioned in the new testament is an earthly one instead of the undisputed fact that it is a heavenly one?
That the Kingdom is a government instead of a grandious place with MANY abodes (as Jesus stated in John 14) for believers and resurected ones?
That God has an "earthly channel" instead of the spirit of truth that guides each individual christian?
That God and the christ will make an all out war against their creation, when the book of revelation is presented in signs?
That the name "Jehovas" witnesses is more appropiate than to be witnesses of Jesus (acts 1:8)
To read more about Watchtower doctrinal errors see:
Again, what "truth" are you refering to?
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punkofnice
They are both. Men such as Moses and Abraham were both 'just imperfect men' who were used by God to convey a message.
Hello there. Because you’re here I can see you have doubts and are testing your faith. I hope you are well and thanks for joining our lil conversation.
Now on to business….ahem…nothing personal but I’ll be brutal…ish
In no way are the GB like Moses and Abraham who (allegedly), were given the message from god directly.
I would have to ask, how are the GB given the messages from god directly?
Why does the watchtower change doctrine if the GB receives the message like Moses and Abraham? Does god tell them lies? How do you know what to trust?
The disciples of Jesus got things wrong. They even interpreted (messianic) prophecy incorrectly. "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"Acts 1:6
No scripture has been altered because it was inspired directly by God. The Watchtower writers do not claim that their interpretations are inspired or infallible, and never have done. (see the box at the beginning of the Revelation grand climax book, I've no doubt you have read it.)The disciples asked a question only and received an answer. Yes, they may have got things wrong. They did not go and preach this. They did not print it in magazines or preach it from the platform. They did not disfellowship those that disagreed with them.
Sadly, the box at the front of the Revelation book is double speak and circular reasoning. It is a big logical fallacy.
If the watchtower writers do not claim to be inspired then why do they disfellowship those that simply do not agree with them? Those that simply leave without saying a word to anyone?
No scriptures altered? What about the new NWT?
As a bonus....explain these contradictions in the bible.....
GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.God could not make a mistake, he did not make that decision. The elders did, who are guided by Holy Spirit in that they use the instructions and principles given to them by reading the spirit inspired words found in the Bible, but they are imperfect and can only know what they have been told, they are not omniscient. Neither were the judges who applied the Law in Israel. Mistakes can happen, more information may be needed. The appeal process is a loving provision.
You can’t say that and think it makes sense. Either god is involved or he isn’t.
If he isn’t then something is terribly wrong. If he is then he’s an idiot.
If the elders are ‘guided’ by holy spirit then the holy spirit is working independently of god and therefore not reliable. If mistakes are made it is evidence of the total absence of god. You may wish to consider that the watchtower is more concerned about law suits……think about it.
Tell me what the scriptures are that show the judicial committee process. That show that 3 men called elders meet. Show me the specific scriptures that use the terms ‘private reproof’, ‘public reproof’, ‘disfellowship’ and ‘disassociate’. I do not want to see out of context scriptures cobbled together.
Tell me why using the bible alone, why these two quotes from the WTBTS are not contradictions....
Awake! 2009 July p.29 (p.28) "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family."
Consider just one example of the good that can come when a family loyally upholds Jehovah’s decree not to associate with disfellowshipped relatives. A young man had been disfellowshipped for over ten years, during which time his father, mother, and four brothers “quit mixing in company” with him. At times, he tried to involve himself in their activities, but to their credit, each member of the family was steadfast in not having any contact with him. After he was reinstated, he said that he always missed the association with his family, especially at night when he was alone. But, he admitted, had the family associated with him even a little, that small dose would have satisfied him. However, because he did not receive even the slightest communication from any of his family, the burning desire to be with them became one motivating factor in his restoring his relationship with Jehovah." Watchtower 2012 Apr 15 p.12
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FrankieGoesToHollywood
Excellent articles, food for thought to current jw´s and members of other destructive groups:
https://anointedjw.org/Discerning_Inspection.html
https://anointedjw.org/Fleeing_to_Freedom.html
and, of course, already a classic last letter to the delusional "Governing Body".
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DATA-DOG
D.O.T said, " They are both. Men such as Moses and Abraham were both 'just imperfect men' who were used by God to convey a message."
WRONG. There is no human or group of humans that can claim "the seat of Moses." That's Jesus' job now. "The channel" is God's word being read by YOU, and the holy spirit [ the spirit of the truth ] revealing truth to YOU. The GB are not listening.
D.O.T said, " The disciples of Jesus got things wrong. They even interpreted (messianic) prophecy incorrectly. "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"Acts 1:6"
WRONG. The disciples were not interpreting anything. They asked a question because they did not know the answer. That is a far cry from saying a WTBTS theory is indisputable fact, and then DF'ing those who disagree, then changing it to what the other person said in the first place, but failing to apologize to the ones you df'd.
D.O.T said, " God could not make a mistake, he did not make that decision. The elders did, who are guided by Holy Spirit in that they use the instructions and principles given to them by reading the spirit inspired words found in the Bible, but they are imperfect and can only know what they have been told, they are not omniscient. Neither were the judges who applied the Law in Israel. Mistakes can happen, more information may be needed. The appeal process is a loving provision."
WRONG. The Elders us the "Shepherd Book" which contains the fallible interpretations of the GB, and man-made rules. That is why they make mistakes. As soon as you ignore God's word, you have kicked the holy spirit out of the room. That's why there are so many mistakes made. That's why the GB don't track down those they wrongly df'd. What happens in the KH backroom is NOT bound in heaven because they are men's guess work, based on the GB's guess work.
Just pick one "unique" belief and stick to the criteria of truth. Can you do that?
DD