by greenhornet 109 Replies latest watchtower scandals
One would have to admit though when Rutherford changed the name of the IBSA to JWS in 1931 ( the name of the Jewish God ) didn't exactly help the situation for the JWS coming from Hitler's perspective of what he thought of the Jews.
Its kind of interesting that Russell was obviously a bit more inclined toward Zionism and when Rutherford took over he was not but then again isn't religion about men's opinions and finding and procuring others to support those established opinions ?
Finkelstein: ...but then again isn't religion about men's opinions and finding and procuring others to support those established opinions ?
Lol! I believe you have just described politics.
Which is my premise. Religion = Politics. You can't separate the two.
SIMON: Since this question is inflammatory and posses danger to Jehovah’ Witnesses in parts of the world under communist rule. It is obvious worldwide readers inter this domain. Such lies and wild accusations of any political affiliations by Jehovah’s Witnesses by utter discontent and shameless intentions to prove by distortion is a liable issue by placing within an organization that government views as subversive due to unconscionable people that place human lives not the organization which they serve in danger by such lies perpetrated by ignorance and the lack of knowledge. I will in all haste call upon your love for humanity to have your members reframe from such despicable accusations and tactics. Thank You.
A SimonSays you are aware that this thread is talking and discussing events that happened 75 years ago, you do realize this is not currant ?.
The chance of the problematic involvement of the JWS and Hitlers Nazi regime to effect the decisions in countries today where the JWS are under restriction is minute to say the least.
You are being ridiculously silly.
Lol! I believe you have just described politics.
Which is my premise. Religion = Politics. You can't separate the two.
Wrong sir, it doesn’t take a genius to have a conclusion that if past Witnesses were political motivated the ignorance will then in sue to modern ideology. I reject your premise.
Jehovah’s Witnesses or Bible Students never had or will have political agendas to either public or government.
Simonsays: Since this question is inflammatory and posses danger to Jehovah’ Witnesses in parts of the world under communist rule.
The only thing "inflammatory about "this question" is that the WTS is making false claims about their involvement in WW2. How this would impact JWs "under communist rule" is unclear. What it may impact, however, is the WTS claims for compensation and it may affect later attempts by the WTS to suppress accurate historical accounts.
The numbers that I refer to above, of JWs who got positions of privilege in the work camps, cannot be seen as inflammatory information - it is simply a report based upon outside sources other than the WTS' reports.
The WTS stories about the JWs in Germany during WW2 have concentrated on the suffering and death that was experienced by those who loyally followed the WTS commands, but, the WTS has never acknowledged that such large numbers actually "were considered partially free" and were placed in positions that gave them an advantage of survival.
The other thing that happened during the Nazi roundup of WTS loyalists, was the ease that dissenters within the organization were dealt with. Instead of having to go through all that rigamarole of disfellowshipping like they do now with apostates and those who don't toe the party line, WW2 made it simple. All they had to do was give the Gestapo the names of the ones they didn't like. The name that comes to mind is Erich Frost. He betrayed several of his colleagues yet has been made into a JW hero.
Simonsays: Wrong sir, it doesn’t take a genius to have a conclusion that if past Witnesses were political motivated the ignorance will then in sue to modern ideology. I reject your premise.
Firstly, thank you for calling me "sir".
Secondly, you are free to reject my premise. I don't expect you to understand it.
I don't understand your statement: "...if past Witnesses were political motivated the ignorance will then in sue to modern ideology."
The point I am making is between the bias tones your assertions made with political affiliation, which by your own admittance is your goal.
Bible students or Jehovah’s Witnesses have never been a
party or affiliated politically to any business of or government. These outlandish
accusations have a habit of spiraling out of control to a point of contention by
people being mislead. This include governments.
If your argument is simply “Erich Frost” which by unconfirmed outside sources you speak of amount to nothing more that tabloid news.
I have read many accounts of this issue. I also know the possible sources of your claim.
"Die
Falschspieler Gottes"; the primary source for it is:-
"Haftbuch Nr. 292, Gestapo Berlin, Dienststelle II B 2"
The problem here is unconfirmed sources, and I will also add that if such facts were viable, then what was the situation with Fehst that people believe Frost gave up these people to the Gestapo. Furthermore with this speculation, can we know for a fact that it wasn’t Fehst himself to do this atrocity and blamed it on Frost? There are too many unknowns.
Artur Nawroth
Otto Dauth
Fred Meier
Walter Friese
Heinrich Ditschi
Albert Wandres
Karl Siebeneichler (perished in Sachsenhausen)
By all accounts, I could in retrospect make such assertions about the Catholic Church. I also have documentation to support such actions by the RCC toward the bible students, But there unconfirmed reports and letters. So my stance is logical unless you can prove otherwise to be making wild accusations.
Thank you
Yes, Simonsays, without doubt there are conflicting reports about many things, not just about the WTS and the JWs, that occurred during history. That is why continual excavation into relevant and emerging documentation is important when examining history. It is not progressive to just accept one view point. There are many varying accounts of past events.
I won't argue about Erich Frost with you - there are lots places online to research and evaluate sources when considering what happened. I won't waste space with material that others have already researched so well. It is an issue that is contentious and has supporters on both sides.
You are welcome.
May your quest for history by blessed with insight, Have a good day.
