by alias 28 Replies latest jw friends
Hello TruthHurts,
Welcome to the list. I see from your post that your view of Jehovah has not changed since leaving the Tower. Can you tell us a little about your background as a JW, and how you nourish your faith today? Again--welcome to the group.
---JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop
Alias,
I don't know what type of information you're looking for with regards to Reiki. I'm not a certified practioner, but rather just a dabbler.
I've used it to help both myself and my animals when they/I have had physical problems. In most cases, I've gotten good results.
I haven't really kept up with Bible reading, although I still have several different versions. Rather I've been branching out to other ideas and philosophies, just to see what's there and what I can glean.
We were forbidden to exercise our curiosity for so long that I'm trying to find out as much as I can about many different ideas. I've just gotten the book "One River, Many Wells" and also "Rabbi Jesus". I'm looking forward to getting into them and discovering new insights.
Alias,
Thank you for such an honest post, and follow-up responses.
We are all so different, so individual. Our cognition from birth has shaped us and formed us. But we each have a soul, and we have to find that soul within ourselves and work along with it to attain true spiritual connections. I will attempt to give you a few clues as to how I found my own way.
By the time I was df'd at age 21, I got a sudden taste of the "wrath of God", but actually, it felt more like "the wrath of man". I thought that if god truly knew me and loved me, then he would understand my heart and know that I was a good person, struggling to find my way. I felt the JW god had disowned me and disappointed me. I suddenly felt like I didn't really know this God, Jehovah, at all. I felt not only lost from an "organization, family and friends", but also, I felt totally abandoned by the god of JW's. I felt like I had no one in the heavens to help me. I felt unworthy, and so I stopped praying.
Yet, in my heart, I always felt that JW's were wrong in a lot of their ideas and teachings. I hated the great control they had over my entire life. I felt trapped and so miserably unhappy and emotionally ill when I was df'd. I thought seriously of just opting out......but, my deep inner voice, my soul was speaking to me even then, and I just didn't understand. I was so busy feeling sorry for myself, that I didn't let go of trying to control everything.
I started out by "retraining" my implanted cognitions. I just put down on a piece of paper how I felt about certain things regarding myself. How I saw myself in the mirror of my own existence. There were things about myself that I needed to change, and I tried to set out on a course to do just that. I was in a marriage with a man who "said" he loved me, but didn't do things that proved that he really did love me. And, yet, for some reason, "I perceived that I deserved to be treated this way". (sort of like how I imagined god) And, then, going back to early childhood, having a parent that never once said the words "I love you", never bonded with me, never had father daughter conversations with me or took an interest in my life. Oh, I'm not saying he hated me, but the way he was brought up, girls were nothing. Even his own children...All I'd had was my mother, and now she wouldn't even talk to me. So, after I married and had a child, I digressed, and returned. But it was not for religion, it was so I could once again have my mother in my life, and my friends.
I tried to live this lie for another ten years. I endured so much verbal abuse from my husband, and because I had no grounds for divorce according to JW's, it was not an option. I lived in fear of my life, but I felt I had no choices. I was the one working to support the family. That old familiar perception, "that I perceived I wasn't worthy" had me down. I was trying to fix everything and keep it all together, and one night, as I lay in bed next to my drunken husband, long passed out--I just stared at the ceiling, and I prayed outloud. I just said that if there was anyone in the universe who was supposed to look after me, then I needed them, I needed an answer, I needed to be free from all this anquish that had become daily life. I began to let go of the control I felt I'd had to maintain. I remember feeling a great release after that pleading. A great calm came over me, and without a doubt, or a second thought, I knew that the borg and I were going to finally part ways. I knew the cost, but I would pay the price. I was getting off this merrygoround,and I was going to survive.
Suddenly, I got an inner surge of emotional strength and determination. First I would tell my mother that I wasn't going to any more meetings and that she should stop calling me to find out why I wasn't attending. That I wasn't going to listen to any more negative. I was only going to think and do positive things. Second, I told my husband that I was no longer going to be associated with JW's. I told him that I wanted very much for our marriage to work out, but that I needed him to work on it too. I took some of that "heavy responsibility" off my shoulders and placed them on his. He didn't like it. We didn't make it. I tried. He didn't.
I went to the library and got the Ray Franz book, the book we were warned never to even "touch". I read it and got strength. I threw out all my literature except for one Bible my dad had given me. He had written the words: To my daughter, with "love", dad.....so I had to save that one. (He had begun to take an interest out of guilt for my mother's sake) Funny, he was finally "coming in", and I was finally going out. He didn't understand, no one did. They accused me of all sorts of ugly things, none of which were true. They felt that I must have done something terrible in order to want to leave. Even my husband accused me of adultery. He didn't understand me at all. (He knew that my being a JW kept me as his wife, because of the sub-surviant way woman were taught to be.)
For once, I simply didn't care what anybody else thought or said. I knew in my heart, and I forged ahead. I thought that I had it together when I went to another State and I relaxed. Well, I really needed much more work on myself, but I was tired and so I kind of slowed down a bit. Then, my first husband committed suicide, and down I went again, hard. I was trying to raise my child, had a new job and a new life, and bam. Was it ever going to end. Was I ever going to be able to find joy and happiness in this life. Was it even possible....
You can only keep things inside for so long, and then it really begins to affect ones health. Basically, I began having digestive problems, which ended up as ten stomach ulcers. Menopause began to set in, and I was spiraling out of control. I was trying to live this secret life, and kept putting my problems on the back burner. My second husband kept me from total madness, but I was changing, and quite frankly, I saw that it wasn't good. I had again allowed myself to move quietly into another place where I was being down trodden. I woke up one day and said, enough of this. I decided that if my parents weren't going to speak to me or associate with me, than I wasn't going to keep writing them my dutiful daughter letters and cards, without ever once receiving a reply. (And mind you, I had not been df'd or da'd by any official means, yet I was treated that way.)
I decided I was sick of myself. I didn't like myself and what I had become. I took responsiblity and stopped blaming every one else. No more door-mat. I decided that I was worth something and that I was going to re-invent me. And, so I did. I found that I was a good person and worthwhile. I decided that perhaps JW's were absolutely wrong and so that guilt was lifted. I'd carried it for a very long time, even though I was long gone. I had not actually faced the enemy.
So, I got my bible out, and decided that the NWT was NOT the place I wanted to start. So, then I really began to research Bibles. Wow, that was an eye-opener. I decided that because so much valuable information was being kept out of translations, that we were being duped, all of us, by all religions. We were a vast world, held at bay by misinformation, inconsistencies. The more I uncovered, the more I found. It still continues. I question everything. I take nothing for granted. I thrive for truth and seek it out.
This escalated by reading all types of self-help and self-analyism information. Then, by digging into religious dogma again. And it's all dogma. We are steeped and strangeled in it. And what must our creator(s) think of this world. This world that has twisted and mishaped facts into fables and fabrication to control masses of people.
It was a much slower process until lI got my computer two years ago. There is just such a wealth of information and references, which saves so much time. There are so many books that even the regular libaries in this area will not carry. So, I find them and buy them--there are ways. I get them used most of the time. Right now I am reading a modern translation of the bible just as a history book, and I'm reading the Koran, just to be educated, and I am also reading other books about this world and the history of mankind.
We all deserve to find this out for ourselves. There is no class in college that can teach you these things. It is arduous and tedious, but I have found that if one just simply "asks", in a pleading to the higher powers, the help does comes. The answers come. Perhaps we've just been praying wrong or asking wrong, or perhaps the time was never right in the past for me. All I can say is that the "truth" is within reach. It is not a person, or a place. It has to do with learning about yourself, and your soul, and making a connection.
And here is the real clencher for all of us. We are right now, where we are meant to be. We had to go through the things we did in life in order to experience them. And, we have learned from them. We have learned from them, because we are still here. We are still alive and kicking. We want truth and knowledge, and most of all understanding, we are going to go out and get it. It's just waiting for us. But, we have to do it. No one else can give it to us. When you "let go" of control, and accept your place here, and learn to love yourself, then you will be prepared to love others. In loving others, you will find your way, because your heart will heal, and your mind will grasp the understanding that comes with earnest effort. Remember, our Father/Mother of the Universe has never left us. Our soul is on it's journey, and we are part of that journey. Asking is the first step for receiving. There's no special way, just from the heart. We are children of the universe, and we have not been forgotten.
Full speed ahead, and no turning back! You are making your own life!
There is no time table for experience. There is no direct quick answer. But, the most important person in this world is YOU. Get to know yourself. Learn to love and accept yourself. Out of that journey comes a wellspring of such peace and inner joy, that is not fleeting, but is lasting. It affects everything that you do and say. You aren't alone. You never were. Our creator(s), our Father/Mother of the universe has always been with us, but we were just to overwhelmed by living our lives to be able to "see" it, and to "understand" it.
Love and Light,
Karen/Sentinel
If I called you and told you that I was going to give you a million dollars.....you would say to me: "for REAL??"
Then would you go out and SPEND like crazy before you REALLY knew the money was in your account?
The question is rhetorical....
We would want to ENSURE that we knew without a doubt that the money was there.
Fastforward to the concept of God and the common teachings that God will reward us if we make all these personal sacrifices to serve him.
I will be the first person in line to make the sacrifices in terms of TIME, EFFORT and OPPORTUNITY LOSS if I knew for sure that God was REAL and I knew for sure that he was indeed making me this offer of future "paradise".
The fact is NO ONE can come close top proving the REALITY of God. He cannot be real to you if you have to exercise faith in his existence - that is a logical contradiction. So do people have faith in God? Yes.....Is he REAL to them? No way!! If so he should be provable to others, right?
Gravedancer,
With all due respect, get a grip man. I guess the computer you used to post your point is not real? Correction, maybe the computer is real because you can see it, but not the electricity.
Or if one is blind then reality to him is much more condenced. How does a blind man worship or explain God/Creator, or is that a mental state because he cannot see or prove?? How does a blind person explain the colors of a rainbow?? Maybe to him they do not exist because they are yet to be proved in his mind, right? God/Creator then must be a state of mind.
If you lived let say back in the 1400's would you have voulunteered to travel the world to prove that the earth was round, or because no one had proved it to you you settled on it being flat based on someone else's flawed opinion. Well there does exist the flat earth society today.
My point, even things that we believe are true do not always pan out like we expecet them too. By the same token, things that we cannot understand or explain or even prove does not make them less real. You cannot say that God/Creator is not real to others when you yourself cannot prove that he is not. In fact NO ONE has. For example, does the fact that that other planets have not been discovered yet make them not exist or less real?? Therefore you cannot claim God/Creator does not exist or is not real to others. That is YOUR personal opinion. Perhaps we personally might not understand or grasp the purpose for life or the purpose of what a creator has for us, yet it does not make him non-existant. Don' t let the influence of WT society as to who God/Creator is cloud your mind. There is so much to explore...
With all due respect, get a grip man.
How does a blind person explain the colors of a rainbow?? Maybe to him they do not exist because they are yet to be proved in his mind, right? God/Creator then must be a state of mind
Salud,
The purpose of my post was to show you the linguistic games that people play. If this thread had been entitled "Do you believe in God?" then that is one thing. However, when we use linguistics to change the meaning of something then it becomes suggestive.
As regards the blind man illustration - its a weak argument. The majority of people can see the rainbow and they can point to it as an indisputable fact - therefore pointing to the sensory inability of someone with a physical disability is a silly proof?
My point stands: If God is real then why does belief in his existence require FAITH? - plain and simple. I am not disputing the fact that people beleieve and are free to believe, I am just letting you know that the emeperor is butt-naked and you are trying to admire his big shiny buckle.
This is the burning question in my mind right now. I was was raised JW my entire life, until a year ago , when I walked away. When I walked I still beleived in Jehovah and thought he would read my heart, I was just sick of WT lies etc. In this last year I have felt a big spiritual void, I dont know if there is a God. I am almost sure that the Bible is unreliable fairy tales. So that leaves me with the problem of how to find out if I beleive in God, since I dont trust the bible anymore?
When I was growing up , I couldnt talk to my elder Dad, I talked to Jehovah. When I had problems as an adult , I didnt tell the elders then either, I talked to Jehovah. To meJehovah wasnot the WT, He was much more understanding than they could be .Or so I thought. Now it has come down to a matter of TRUST. I have lost my trust in God, because of the WT. I put my whole belief system on everything they said and they deceived me. Now I think, of all those years praying to God and it was all a made up relationship . A relationship I created in my mind, to soothe myself and to have some kind of peace of mind. I can't even trust myself anymore. I have many past childhood abuse issues and even as an adult the elders put me thru alot of guilt. Today I have no relationship with my JW father . I wonder if that is why I can't trust anymore? I want to beleive in the Bible and God. A few months ago , my main concern was where do we go when we die? I just had to know. Now it has turned to .. is there even a God? I need to do alot of research, but I think in the end I will still be in the same place I am right now, no answers. I think I may form some kind of theories, but I dont think it is possible to have absolute truth anymore. We can read thousands of books on many men's different ideas, but they are just that , men's/women's, interpertations. Now I am more inclined to beleive in scientific explanations.
It is very hard to THINK you know all the answers, as all JW's do. Then you feel like a rug is snatched from under you and you fall hard. Since I have accepted the fact the I had been in the dark about JW's for so long, and found out the lies they tried to keep for us, I just dont know how this will turn out for me. I just have the plan to try and study the best I can, be the best person I can be, and always keep an open mind.
I appreciate the additional comments on this post.
I remember posting this a couple of years ago, and I think about where I'm at now. I always come full circle with this one. No definite answers, only my intuition to go on and freedom to take in new perspectives. LyinEyes, I liked your last comment, "I just have the plan to try and study the best I can, be the best person I can be, and always keep an open mind."
There is so much out there to experience! I keep an open mind and enjoy the journey.
Karen/Sentin,
Thank you for the thought and effort you put into your response. I appreciated your thoughts very much.
