Who Made The Code?

by Perry 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry
    Perry

    Snare and a Racket,

    I think that it is fair to say that science has proven that there exists (and not just an illusion or perception of existence) incredibly complex coding languages as well as a biological storage capability that far excedes anything we humans have to date been able to come up with or even hardly imagine. Furthermore, the foundational cornerstone of CHANCE that underpines a naturalistic worldview just gets buried deeper and deeper under the new discoveries of the complexity of how we are existing.

    Where did this vast information and complicated storage architecture come from?

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Viviane, Perry is simply asserting that everything, every last frigging thing, is proof that God is. And it's an easy jump for him to be sure that it's HIS God that is.

    Perry, other dimensions or life starting off planet are theories that do not have enough backing right now and may never. But I cannot imagine someone who believes all that virgin birth stuff and "dead for three days" and appearing to Paul in a vision and YADDA YADDA making light of alternative theories.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    To translate your question,

    Science has proven that the universe, over billions of years and with chemical processes going on at random in that time, has managed to make more complex things than evolved apes have managed in 200 thousand years, but to be fair only 150 years with the scientific method and 30 years of computing,

    But yes.... that is correct the universe has managed to form far more complex things than an iphone 5.

    We have a very good idea how it does it, and we have reversed the process with a gross appreciation of the iniverse right back to a billionth of a second after the big bang, whcih we are replicating in a BIG BANG MACHINE we have built.

    This is no secret, but I don't see what you think is so special about this realisation. It certainly does not go anywhere near to a hebrew speaking space man with a beard and a throne.

    I wont repeat myself with regard to codes and language, only to say you are incorrect, science does not say as Perry does. If you can quote me the papers that state as you said, I will look at them for their legitimacy. In my 7 years of study I have not seen this said outside of christian and muslim literature.

    I think you are simply being difficult now I have explained it to you, we label patterns with things we can understand, numbers, letters, words, colours etc. It is a pattern, that is why we noticed it. It is labeled, because we labeled it. For an ignorant (as the word literally means) whistling man to then walk past and point at said labeled pattern and go "WOW LOOK A CODE!" is to not understand what happened before he got there.

    It is intrinsic to how we think, it is efficient for our brains to spot patterns, it uses less processing power than learning or calculating what is going on, fresh every time. Humans are amazing at finding patterns, it is what helped us survive. We look for them everywhere and then when we find them, to be able to discuss them, we label them. This is what you are seeing in the universe Perry. I could be a compute genius and not study biology and be the passer by pointing at the 'code'!

    Ignore me, call me a liar or dumb, or too scared of the ten commandments, anything you like. Quote bill gates, who actually didnt say anything contradictory to any of this, and intepret it as you wish. We will go on answering life's questions, you go back to your scrolls from the desert.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    S&R - I think you are misunderstanding the question still. As you explained how things come together, and what initially made them come together, you still avoid where the blueprints come from.

    What caused a human to be formed vs a cow vs a plant vs a fish etc, aka DNA code.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    Also, S&R, I've had some DNA tests which when I researched some of the results, showed me more likely to get some illnesses/diseases that my mother has.

    So tell me, what exactly was it that the tests revealed that makes me more likely to get certain things that other people are less likely to get?

    It seems like you are denying that DNA code exists.

    The genetic code is the set of rules by which information encoded within genetic material ( DNA or mRNA sequences) is translated into proteins by living cells . Biological decoding is accomplished by the ribosome , which links amino acids in an order specified by mRNA, using transfer RNA (tRNA) molecules to carry amino acids and to read the mRNA three nucleotides at a time. The genetic code is highly similar among all organisms and can be expressed in a simple table with 64 entries.

    So.....how did those set of rules originate?

  • Perry
    Perry

    If you can quote me the papers that state as you said, I will look at them for their legitimacy.

    Just deal with the 7 terabytes of data that Havard grads stuffed into one gram of DNA in the link I provided above.

    That capability could not have happened by chance in trillions of years. You are just not dealing with the problem squarely.

    Two of England’s leading evolutionist scientists, *Hoyle and *Wickramasinghe, working independently of each other, came to the same conclusion: The chance of life appearing spontaneously from non-life in the universe is effectively zero! (*Fred Hoyle and *C. Wickramasinghe, Evolution from Space). One of these researchers is an agnostic and the other a Buddhist; yet both decided from their analyses that the origin of life demands the existence of God to have created it.

    The London Daily Express (August 14, 1981) put the conclusion of these two scientists into headlines: "Two skeptical scientists put their heads together and reached an amazing conclusion: There must be a God." *Hoyle and *Wickramasinghe concluded in their book that the probability of producing life, anywhere in the universe from evolutionary processes, was as reasonable as getting a fully operational Boeing 747 jumbo jet from a tornado going through a junkyard (*Fred Hoyle, Science, November 12, 1981, p. 105).

    These statements were made by top scientists decades ago. The (millions and billions of years did it) argument that you rely upon is becoming increasingly isolated and is already so far out of the realm of possibility as to warrant no serious consideration.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    Perry, why do you think that the amount of books of unknown size stacked to the moon or the number of terabytes matters?

    BTW, is that compressed and/or deduplucated terabytes or raw data?

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    What's funny is that the term "Big Bang Theory" was coined by Hoyle, and he is the one who rejected that theory.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    "Some super-calculating intellect must have designed the properties of the carbon atom, otherwise the chance of my finding such an atom through the blind forces of nature would be utterly minuscule. A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." Hoyle

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    End of Mysteries, this was answered 150 years ago.

    It is a 3 year degree in itself, but you know the answer already… if you sincerely want to know, I have taken time from my exam study to explain….

    Firstly, I did answer that question 'how did it come to be' as that was relevant to the OP. Your new question of is based on a huge misconception, you would probably reach this class about 8 weeks in, just to give you a perspective.

    There is no blueprint for a butterfly, for a human, for a rhino, for a tree. We have DNA evolution mapped out from bacteria to modern time. We can see each progressive development.

    If you don't believe science or this seems confusing as it did to me before I studied it, again let me briefly explain.So abiogenesis explains the formation of basic chemicals into the first living cell. Evolution maps the development from that first living cell to the animals we have today. Guess what, you are in luck, we have done that now. But because you asked the question, specifically, you mentioned the blueprint, you don’t understand the reality of who and what we are where we came from and where we are going.

    Ignore the bible or atheist debate, ignore whether you believe in evolution or not. This is the facts.

    When we dig down in the ground, we go further back in time.The furthest layer down where we find life, we fins ONE cell organism, below that, no life at all. Above the singe cell depth, we find multicellular organisms. Millions of years (higher up we dig) later we start to see multi-celled organisms form basic sponge and coral etc. We keep digging up and all of life slowly, slowly gets more and more complex. You NEVER find complex animals like say rabbits in the single cell layers for example and you won’t find extinct animals in layers above the time they died.

    (Layers, time period and examples of organism development)

    This led to us finding billions of fossils at different times on earths planet. You never find a human below the layer we know humans evolved, you don’t find dinosaurs above the layer they died out at and the changes between layers of time are tiny changes. Darwin saw this and said hang on, did those animals that look like rabbits but bigger and with longer legs and bigger jaws become rabbits or did god kill them off and make rabbits of today.Then he asked your question End of Mysteries... What is a rabbit? I.e. What is the blueprint of a rabbit? If rabbits have existed 3 million years and have changed hugely from year one of 'rabbit' to year 3 million, there is no blueprint, it is constantly adapting.

    He then asked, what could power that process?

    He noticed that dog breeders and bird breeders could mimic the changes seen in fossils by SELECTIVE breeding, HUMAN SELECTION, if you want a dog with a short nose, breed two short nosed dogs. Within 3 generations you have a wildly different looking dog. Darwin recognised that with millions of years, animals could change vastly, but if humans didnt do the selection what did? He then realised after a trip around the world, specifically at the Galapagos islands. With animals, the land and weather and environment was selecting which genes survived, he called it NATUTAL SELECTION. A human selected two short nosed dogs to make DNA with a very short nose, well, in Galapagos the birds beak lengths were dependant on where the food was for that bird. There were finches on separate islands, the ones with food hidden in deep trees had longer beaks than the ones with food freely about. The finches who had to eat hard material had stronger beaks.

    That is what Darwin wrote about. This is evolution (small changes over time) by natural selection (the enviroment dictating the changes).

    But this obviously is not the DNA we are talking about and they didn't understand DNA then, or that it existed. DNA is passed from generation to generation, it makes mistakes every time, tiny ones, but they can have a large impact. If that mistake is useful, for example a long beak, you will survive better, breed more and that gene will dominate the new population. This was the theory, BUT now we can look at our DNA, as you can imagine, for people who believed in evolution from the fossil record and observable evolution of bacteria, viruses, fly's etc alone, they could make predictions. If we WERE evolving in this manner, we would see it in our DNA.

    We do, our ancestors DNA is in our DNA even the interactions with bacteria and viruses (colds and flu) that our ancestors dealt with are in it. Also we no know all the processes that lead to the mistakes and selection of the genes in the DNA.

    So that is how our DNA changes over time. It is called Evolution and this is what Darwin wrote. Go read ‘origin of species’ or a textbook. Now maybe you can answer your own question about a blueprint.

    Think of a human and all our human ancestors, from the earliest mammal to humans today. Or if that is too much, from the homo erectus to humans today. Every stage we developed over time, there is no blueprint for our DNA. In a thousand years our DNA will be different to what it is now.

    I ‘ll end with an example.

    If you get a certain tiny mistake in your DNA your red blood cells, instead of being round are crescent moon shaped. It leads to people living fewer years and in some discomfort. But this is a real phenomenon, its called “sickle cell disease.”

    Sickle cell, though disruptive, makes you less prone to malaria, as the malaria pathogen struggles to latch on to the sickle shaped cells. As natural selection would dictate, in regions of the world full of malaria (East Africa) the sickle cell gene is wildly proliferative and dominates the local gene pool because these people live longers, survive and procreate. Natural selection in action!

    But lets carry on with the idea of the blueprint , to see why we dont have one.....

    So, in 2014, you could say that a ‘normal’ , the majority of humans have a round red blood cell. Lets say in 2015 the environment changes, that malaria is rife and kills most of the world. By 2030 the majority of humans have...... sickle cell shaped blood cells. So what is the blueprint DNA ? The one before or after the sickle cell mutation? Being human we like to think it is OUR dna right NOW. But we know it was different to now, in our past too. This is why it is incorrect to say there is a ‘blueprint’ because animals, organisms, are constantly adapting and evolving to the environment.The DNA of early humans was wildly different to humans today.

    So abiogenesis, the formation of DNA and the first cell

    Evolution, the development of that cell into what we see today.

    That is the very BASIC of what we have discovered and know. If you studied it you would see we know this pathway in great detail, hence we can now manipulate genes etc and make a living cell from scratch.

    But we long ago, 150 years ago answered your question end of mysteries. Most people in the world know this stuff, that’s the most embarrassing thing. Being JW's we were fed lot of outdated, minority opinions that fitted in with the narrative of Watchtower.

    You dont have to believe any of this but this is where science is and what it is doing.

    As for our question in regards to your mum, hopefully this explained it. Like I said, this isnt forum debate, these are topics that take 5 years of high school, 2 years of highe education, 3 years of a degree, two years of a masters....before you can then start a PHD in an area and become an expert in that very specific field, that is if you do and pass your year long PHD.

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