by DATA-DOG 15 Replies latest watchtower bible
I was taught in the 80's at the Synagogue as a Jew that the Messiah would come and ressurect the dead to earth, this was around the time of MJs Thriller video.
Interesting, is that the "restoration of all things."
Very true.
The restoration of all things would include the Thriller video being enhanced and remastered into an HD format.
Rub a Dub
Of course Jews did not believe in the heavenly resurrection. It was not taught until Jesus taught the kingdom of the heavens. Where would they get it from?
They had an earthly kingdom, an earthly king, earthly priests, earthly sacrifices. That was sufficient for them. But they had a promise to be a kingdom and priests.
Jesus introduced a new way. A kingdom in heavenly Jerusalem, with him as king and it was later shown that there would be 144,000 Israelites of the spirit would would join him. That had to be new otherwise what would the purpose for Jesus be?
Ratt said- Of course Jews did not believe in the heavenly resurrection. It was not taught until Jesus taught the kingdom of the heavens. Where would they get it from?
Aside from short periods of time in their recent past (eg Hasmonean Dynasty, circa 140-37 BCE, considered as an independent Kingdom of Israel which gave way to the Roman puppet government, the Herodian Dynasty), an independent Jewish state had been only a pipedream, a vague memory from their long-distant past which had been lost 600 years before when the Kingdom of Judah was conquested by the Babylonians. Think of the lure of "Paradise Lost, Paradise Regained", and Jesus played off the drive and desire for a rebuilt kingdom, on Earth as it is in Heaven". Jesus was speaking to the role of the Jesus messiah, a human who was to see a restoration of the Earthly Kingdom, where resurrection was part of the promise, with the Jewish messiah given the power to resurrect.
But when faced with the real-life reality of NO CHANCE of it coming to pass, the obvious temptation is to create a Kingdom and power that no one can see, and to curse those Earthly rulers who actually DO rule and oppress the Chosen People, and to dream of their overthrow and vanquishing at the hands of a God. We're in pure Fantasyland, now, and no hold is barred once you allow magical thinking to enter the picture, and Earthly resurrection was part of the fantasy.
It's such a seductive and alluring idea that it lived on to the present day in groups like the JWs, as all of you know quite well.
Adam
Many Jews at the time of Christ had concepts of Heaven, Paul being one of them, many had an earthly resurrection as a hope too.
Jesus words, without any qualification, "this day you will be with me in Paradise " would have given hope to the "Evil doer", as the NWT has him, on the next cross, whatever his belief.
To say that no Jews at the time believed in a Heavenly paradise is simply wrong.
Paradise need not be heaven. Jesus uses all these words which meant one thing to his audience of 1st century Jews. Our language usage has evolved. I happen to like living on earth. The average Christian gives no thought to what these terms means. I only asked when my aunt died. There were contradictory scriptures. Christianity became mixed with Greek notions from an early date.
I don't see it as that important now. Whatever happens happens. It is nothing I can change.
The contention in the O.P as expressed from the K.H platform was that "the Jews did not believe in a heavenly paradise ".
As I said above, some may not have. BUT SOME MOST CERTAINLY DID.
"Christianity became mixed with Greek notions from an early date."
What you are missing Band is that Hellenistic influence had already influenced Jewish beliefs, for centuries, hence some Jews expecting what JW's would call a "Heavenly Hope" at the time of Jesus.
