Dead pregnant woman forced to stay on life support, due to TX State law

by adamah 285 Replies latest social current

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Further - they worked in Texas and as part of the health services, would no doubt been fully aware of Texas law in these sort of cases and didn't have an issue with it - as long as it didn't affect them. Or was the wife accepting of the fact that should anything happen to her, that her unborn child would be the priority and all attempts made to secure the life of her child. Did she believe that no matter what her husband would have done all he could to make certian that their child was the priority in times of life and death? Who knows?

    I agree with you, SW.

  • Violia
    Violia

    The Good Samaritan Law

    Not in the U.S. We reject the British duty to render aid, except for those in certain positions (police, fire, doctors).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    The foetus was relying on the mothers blood for oxygen, its cells need oxygen as much as the mothers, it is the same supply. We can hope that by some physiological chance, sufficient oxygen was either diverted to or given to the foetus (via intervention) before damage was done. Though this is a huge roll of the dice at just 14 weeks development.

    As for the heart pumping, hearts can beat by themselves without brain input, in fact human hearts can beat by itself even if removed from the body as they have their own pacemaker cells. Experts would not dare guess at the state of this foetus, to do so in ignorance on a religious forum is not appropriate. Once more people refuse to say 'we can't know' and so make up facts/science/reality to suit their personal belief.

    This case is a huge unknown, it is a hugely difficult ethical dilemma. If the mother was 37 weeks I would see the logic, despite the questionable ethics. At 14 weeks, it seems to be a deisicion based on someones personal beliefs about life support and importantly that person is neither the dead mother, the partner or family as they all denied the right to this action taken. It is a predominantly a religious state's opinion, overriding patient autonomy, I hope this is not why it happened, it would be a dangerous prescident.

    We won't know the result of this desicion for some time, right now a dead woman is being artificially given oxygen and nutrients via her veins to maintain a foetus in an unknown viable state. The family wish to bury them both and grieve, the state are keeping the body artificially viable. If the foetus is delivered and is a healthy baby and goes on to live with great respect and appreciation for the state we can all be glad to be wrong. But this seems to be based on no educated estimations or evidence, but a currently unrealistic want for such an occurence to take place. If the foetus is born impaired, which IF it survives is more likely than not, then the ethical dilemma is huge, a family who now has to care and maintain a child that by nature would have died, but was artificially maintained by the state. Basic issues like 'who pays the extraordinary hospital costs etc' are suddenly very relevant.

    There is no right and wrong answers with ethical issues, that is lesson 101 in medicine, you can only examine the evidence and discuss the scenario's and make a desicion of best interest, if legal and .....importantly.... if with consent and respect for autonomy of the patient. This is the big issue here, they have denied the patients autonomy as she did not want this, she was a paramedic and knew the reality of 'Life support'. Her capacity is handed to her partner and family on dying, which shockingly was then also ignored. Priority was given to the autonomy and capacity of a foetus, who not having any due to being a foetus is once more handed to the parents, who again were overidden by the state.

    It is an ethical nightmare and in all honesty there is no science or evidence defending the actions of the state. so what was the motive? As i said it appears TO ME to be a personal belief interpreted in a misused law about preservation of life in a pregnant woman. But, and prepare yourself for an unpleasant but honest sentence....but.... this is not a pregnant woman, it is now an artificially maintained pregnancy in a dead body. The hospital spokesman said "you cannot withhold or withdraw life-sustaining treatment for a pregnant patient." which makes sense, if the woman is alive, she is no longer alive, they are NOT SUSTAINING LIFE, she has already died.

    It was doubtless a tough decision to make and we can't judge as easily as it appears we can, but it does seem to be based on ideology not evidence, which is perhaps regrettable. We have protocols in the UK that prevent doctors from attempting to resuscitate a premature baby below specific weeks, 21 weeks is the current line, as it is unethical to prolong an unviable life due to the probability of a very temporary and disabled existence. I am reminded of this ethical stance with this case.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Respectfully, this sounds like an appeal to the emotions of people who might confuse this case with pro-life or pro-choice

    No. If no one knows, as you claim, then this is an experiment, and the father and his son bear the risk of a bad outcome.

    There are only two options, which Adam nicely articulated as follows: (paraphrasing) (1) We don't know the condition of the fetus, so the state forces it to be born, or (2) we don't know the status of the fetus, so the father and next of kin to the mother makes the choice.

    And part of this case does go to the heart of the pro-life/pro-choice argument which is 'when does life begin.'

    if she were alive and wondering about the health of this fetus, would number one call it a fetus

    This, on the other hand, IS an appeal the emotion. Fetus is the scientific term, regardless of what the hypothetically alive mother would call it. And I can't even hazard a guess as to why you think it relevant to the discussion.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    The Good Samaritan Law

    Not in the U.S. We reject the British duty to render aid, except for those in certain positions (police, fire, doctors).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

    I didn't want to get this technical, but with the above posting, I feel I must.

    Good Samaritan laws protect those who choose to render aid from being sued by the person they rescue who might be hurt during the rescue. The U.S. has Good Sam laws because our public policy is to encourage people to help others.

    What Apognophos was referring to was the Duty to Rescue (or render aid), which is a law that penalizes those who can help but refuse. The U.S., however, is NOT enamoured with the idea of forcing people to help.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    The law of being protected from prosecution for medical interventions made "with best interest" of the patient, do not apply as there is no evidence at all if this is of 'best interest' it has never been done before, for the ethical reasons we have all mentioned.

    This is a science experiment, one against the will of the dead mother, the father, the family.

  • Violia
    Violia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue

    In some cases you may have a duty to render aid.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Good Samaritan laws protect those who choose to render aid from being sued by the person they rescue who might be hurt during the rescue. The U.S. has Good Sam laws because our public policy is to encourage people to help others.

    Oh dear, of course you're right, JT, I forgot what that law did. I didn't bother to even read that part of the WP article because I was sure I already knew what the law was for.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    if she were alive and wondering about the health of this fetus, would number one call it a fetus

    This, on the other hand, IS an appeal the emotion. Fetus is the scientific term, regardless of what the hypothetically alive mother would call it. And I can't even hazard a guess as to why you think it relevant to the discussion.

    I don't know if you've been pregnant, but expectant mothers call their babies, baby. They don't say things like, "Oh, I went to the doctor today and the fetus now is probably 2 pounds and has a very healthy heart beat." Or "Oh, the fetus kicked! Come here, see if you can feel the fetus." Or, "We decided to paint the fetus' nursery today." Expectant mothers who want their babies, call them baby.

  • Violia
    Violia

    FHN I wish this forum had a LIKE button next to posts. I would so LIKE your post. I have been pg 3 times, 2 live births one miscarriage at 3 months. It is a baby from the moment you suspect you may be pg. It has life . I was devastated at the loss of my baby. It looked human and was human.

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